Dear Mark, I think this might be of interest for the discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/22/nonsense-paper-written-by-ios-autocomplete-accepted-for-conference It's a extreme case of economic interest debunking scientific communication. I think it shows a problem of coding between science and economics. Codes disambiguate information processing allowing differentiation. Frauds like these fall in between both codes: they are making money out of science without making science. Best, Javier El oct 21, 2016 9:06 a.m., "Francesco Rizzo" <13francesco.ri...@gmail.com> escribió: > Caro Mark e cari tutti, > da "Il giudizio di valore" (1972) affermo che la scienza economica > "normale" doveva essere buttata alle ortiche o nell'immondezzaio, perchè > "La scienza non può non essere umana, civile, sociale, ECONOMI(C)A, > enigmatica, nobile, profetica" (2016). Quindi non mi viene facile leggere > taluni rilievi critici che non possono condividere perché non è giusto fare > di tutte le erbe un fascio. > Ho rispetto del pensiero degli altri, ma ritengo sempre opportuno mettere > i puntini sulle i. > Francesco > > 2016-10-21 14:33 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>: > >> Dear Mark and FIS colleagues, >> >> It was a pity that our previous replies just crossed in time, otherwise I >> would have continued along your thinking lines. However, your alternative >> focus on who has access to the "Brownian chamber motion" is pretty exciting >> too. >> >> Following our FIS colleague Howard Bloom ("The Global Brain", 2000), >> universities and the like are a social haven for a new type of personality >> that does not match very well within the social order of things. It is the >> "Faustian type" of mental explorers, dreamers, creators of thought, etc. >> Historically they have been extremely important but the way they are >> treated (even in those "havens" themselves!), well, usually is rather >> frustrating except for a few fortunate parties. A long list of arch-famous >> scientific figures ended very badly indeed. >> >> So, in this view, people "called to the box" are the Faustians of the >> locality... But of course, other essential factors impinge on the box >> composition and inner directions, often very rudely. SCIENTIA POTESTAS EST: >> it means that as the box's outcomes are so much influential in the >> technology, religion, culture, richness, prosperity, and military power, >> etc., a mixing of socio-political interests will impress a tough handling >> in the external guidance and inner contents of the poor box. >> >> And finally, the education --as you have implied-- that very often is >> deeply imbued with classist structures and class selection. The vitality of >> the Brownian box would most frequently hang from these educational >> structures --purses-- for both financing and arrival of new people. And >> that implies further administrative strings and been involved in frequent >> bureaucratic internecine conflicts. The book of Gregory Clark (2014, The >> Son also Raises) is an excellent reading on class "iron statistics" >> everywhere, particularly in education. >> >> E puor si muove! All those burdens have a balance of positive supporting >> and negative discouraging influences, different in each era. Perhaps far >> better in our times, but who knows... The good thing relating our >> discussion is that, from immemorial times, all those Brownian boxes around >> are wonderfully agitated and refreshed by the external communication flows >> of scientific publications via the multiple channels (explosive ones today, >> almost toxic for the Faustian). >> >> Maintaining a healthy, open-minded scientific system... easy said than >> done. >> >> Best regards >> --Pedro >> >> >> >> >> >> El 16/10/2016 a las 16:07, Mark Johnson escribió: >> >> Dear Pedro, >> >> Thank you for bringing this back down to earth again. I would like to >> challenge something in your first comment - partly because contained >> within it are issues which connect the science of information with the >> politics of publishing and elite education. >> >> Your 'bet' that "that oral exchange continues to be the central >> vehicle. It is the "Brownian Motion" that keeps running and infuses >> vitality to the entire edifice of science." is of course right. >> However, there is a political/critical issue as to who has ACCESS to >> the chamber with the Brownian motion. >> >> It is common for elite private schools in the UK (and I'm sure >> elsewhere) to say "exams aren't important to us. What matters are the >> things around the edges of formal education... character-building >> activities, contact with the elite, etc". What they mean is that they >> don't worry about exams because their processes of pre-selection and >> 'hot-housing' mean that all their students will do well in exams >> anyway. But nobody would argue that exams are not important for >> personal advancement in today's society, would they? >> >> Similarly, elite universities may say "published papers are not that >> important - what happens face-to-face is what matters!". Those >> universities do not have to worry so much about publishing in >> high-quality journals because (often) the editors of those journals >> are employed by those universities. But when, at least in the last 10 >> years or so, did anybody get an academic job in a university with no >> publications? >> >> I draw attention to this not because it seems like a stitch-up >> (although it is). It is because it skews what you call the "Brownian >> motion". At worst we end up with the kind of prejudice that was >> expressed by Professor Tim Hunt last year >> (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/10/nobel-scientist-tim-hunt-female-scientists-cause-trouble-for-men-in-labs). >> More fundamentally, the doubts and uncertainties of the many are very >> important, and in this system, they are not only not heard, but in the >> increasingly rarefied and and specialised exchanges in the "Brownian >> motion chamber", as the elite scholars endlessly discuss ontological >> arguments for the existence of information (!), everyone else is >> effectively locked-out. >> >> The economic crisis and the economists is a good example of this kind >> of pathology. It was pretty obvious that the economic system was >> heading for trouble quite some time before 2008; it was also obvious >> to a few economists on the fringes (who became very unpopular) that >> economics was in a mess many years before, concocted out of spurious >> mathematical models and a published discourse which would admit little >> else. As Tony Lawson says here (this is worth >> watching:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vMLHis5cE), after the crisis it's >> easier to claim that economics is in a mess. But doing something about >> it is a different matter. >> >> As a side note about Brownian motion: Tony Lawson is based in >> Cambridge as has, over the last 20 years, held a bi-weekly seminar >> series open to all called the Cambridge Realist Workshop. Some of the >> brightest minds in the University attend these. They all have deep >> discussions about economics, ontology, society... basically, about >> "everyone else". But "everyone else" isn't in the room. >> >> This is the problem. Were "everyone else" to be there, for it to be >> truly open, honest and democratic.... I think we would have a better >> science of society, information, education, etc... A small step to >> achieving this is to communicate our doubts in different, more open >> and more creative ways. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------- >> Pedro C. Marijuán >> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group >> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud >> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) >> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X >> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain >> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& >> 6818)pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ >> ------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fis mailing list >> Fis@listas.unizar.es >> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > >
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