Bob, Perhaps it is time to recall a concept we have already addressed about information. It is the concept of meaning, the nature of which is related to the entity managing the information (generating it or receiving it). It goes with meaningful information as related to life and also to artificial agents. You may remember the proposed definition of meaning in the framework of a relation between an information processing entity submitted to an internal constraint and information received by that entity. A meaning is meaningful information that is created by an entity submitted to an internal constraint when it receives information that has a connection with the constraint. The meaning is formed of the connection existing between the received information and the constraint. The function of the meaningful information is to participate to the determination of an action that will be implemented in order to satisfy the constraint. Ex : mouse (submitted to a stay alive constraint) perceiving a cat and escaping it. The received information can be already meaningful as an alert signal coming from a conspecific. Also, information received by entities submitted to different constraints can generate different meanings. Such approach applies to entities (agents) submitted to internal constraints and needs more developments to address human constraints (look for happiness, avoid anxiety, valorize ego ...). Artificial agents are covered by derived constraints coming from the designer. More on this at http://philpapers.org/rec/MENCOI.
[http://philpapers.org/assets/raw/philpapers-plus250.jpg]<http://philpapers.org/rec/MENCOI> Christophe Menant, Computation on Information, Meaning and ...<http://philpapers.org/rec/MENCOI> philpapers.org Understanding computation as “a process of the dynamic change of information” brings to look at the different types of computation and information. With such perspective the text of a book is meaningful for the writer of the book and for a reader that knows the language used in the book (different meanings are possible as writer and reader may have different constraints). And the text should be meaningless for a reader not knowing the language. As also presented here some time ago, the differentiation between intrinsic and derived constraints brings to introduce artificial life as a step toward artificial intelligence (see http://philpapers.org/rec/MENTTC-2 ). [http://philpapers.org/assets/raw/philpapers-plus250.jpg]<http://philpapers.org/rec/MENTTC-2> Christophe Menant, Turing Test, Chinese Room Argument ...<http://philpapers.org/rec/MENTTC-2> philpapers.org The Turing Test (TT), the Chinese Room Argument (CRA), and the Symbol Grounding Problem (SGP) are about the question “can machines think?” We propose to look at ... Best Christophe ________________________________ De : Fis <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> de la part de Bob Logan <lo...@physics.utoronto.ca> Envoyé : vendredi 4 novembre 2016 15:42 À : Andrei Khrennikov; Gyorgy Darvas; John Collier; fis Objet : Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime? Hello Andrei - I am with you - sharing you sentiment. Information only pertains to living organisms and entails some signals that help them make a choice. A black hole makes no choices - it is ruled by the laws of physics. Abiotic systems have no information. A book is a set of signals that a reader can convert into information if they know the language which the book is written. A book written in Urdu contains no information for me other than this appears to be a set of signals that contains information for a reader in the language in which this book was written. Who reads a black hole. How does it contain information that makes a difference. When we launch a satellite to orbit the earth we do not say that the sun is informing the satellite how to behave. The satellite is just following the laws of physics. It has no choice and so it is not being informed. There are many different forms of information (biotic and Shannon as found in the 2007 paper Propagating Organization: An Inquiry by Kauffman, Logan et al. in Biology and Philosophy 23: 27-45) so we do not need to complicate things even more by ascribing the laws of physics as the communication of information. ______________________ Robert K. Logan Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto Fellow University of St. Michael's College Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan Robert K. Logan | University of Toronto - Academia.edu<http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan> utoronto.academia.edu Robert K. Logan, University of Toronto, Physics Department, Emeritus. Studies Media Ecology, Media, and Information Theory. Abbreviated Curriculum Vitae of Robert K ... www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan<http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan> www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications<http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications> Robert Logan - Publications<http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications> www.researchgate.net ResearchGate is a network dedicated to science and research. Connect, collaborate and discover scientific publications, jobs and conferences. All for free. On Nov 4, 2016, at 4:17 AM, Andrei Khrennikov <andrei.khrenni...@lnu.se<mailto:andrei.khrenni...@lnu.se>> wrote: Dear all, I want to comment so called information approach to physics, by speaking with hundreds of leading experts in quantum foundations, I found that nobody can define rigorously the basic term "information" which is so widely used in their theories and discussions, the answers are as "information is the basic entity" which cannot be defined in other terms. Well, my impression is that without novel understanding and definition of information all these "theories" are practically empty, well very good mathematical exercises. May be I am too critical... But I spent so much time by trying to understand what people are talking about. The output is ZERO. all the best, andrei Andrei Khrennikov, Professor of Applied Mathematics, Int. Center Math Modeling: Physics, Engineering, Economics, and Cognitive Sc. Linnaeus University, Växjö, Sweden My RECENT BOOKS: http://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/p1036 http://www.springer.com/in/book/9789401798181 http://www.panstanford.com/books/9789814411738.html http://www.cambridge.org/cr/academic/subjects/physics/econophysics-and-financial-physics/quantum-social-science http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642051005 ________________________________________ From: Fis [fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] on behalf of Gyorgy Darvas [darv...@iif.hu] Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 10:23 PM To: John Collier; fis Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime? John: The article describes very really the conflicting attitudes. Interesting to see the diverse arguments together. I agree, some think so, some do not. I do the latter, but this does not make any matter. Gyuri On 2016.11.03. 19:52, John Collier wrote: Apparently some physicists think so. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102 John Collier Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
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