Dear Diego,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments. We are not mathematicians neither physicists, therefore some advanced concepts are not easy to follow, but we will try to look at your work in relation to your comments :) In the end of your message you have referred to the dilemma of God… It sounds similar to our paper: “Is our brain hardwired to produce God or is our brain hardwired to perceive God? A systematic review on the role of the brain in mediating religious experience.” This paper is outside the physics domain and also does not touch explicitly ‘information’, - it discusses the empirical evidence about the neural constituents of religious experience and analyse it critically. For those who might be interested, please have a look here: http://www.bm-science.com/team/art56.pdf Greetings, A&A From: Diego Lucio Rapoport [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, 25 January, 2017 04:38 To: Andrew Fingelkurts / BM-Science Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; Jeremy Dunning-Davies; fis; Brian J Ford; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Fis] [Sadhu Sanga] Physics hype ... Dear Andrew and Alexander Thank you dearly for your most striking comment that the transition of non-linear thermodynamical systems from exploding entropy to a reorganization of the system through negative entropy as per my work is the case of the brain as per your work following Freeman's tradition. (You even wrote it almost identically to my own presentation!) Allow me to suggest however, that rather than a nested hierarchy (say a Matrushka) as already suggested by Freeman, which is an iterated dual logophysics, the case is of an hyperKlein Bottle which is non-dual and heterarchical, rather than hierarchical (or, in other terms, both), as discussed in my work retaking MacCulloch's 1945 work. The neural networks that Freeman considered as producing the nested hierarchy may well be non-orientable (Mobius strip ) as discussed also in my work, being the case that the topographic maps of vision and somatosensory systems have the Klein Bottle topology, as is also the case of genomes. I look forward to study your works and return to you. By the way, this non-dual logophysics which integrates Outside and Inside -as is the Klein Bottle- seems to be the natural one regarding the issue whether God(s) produces our bodies as to cognize him (her) and organize our lives or we produce God(s). Best and kind regards, Diego Rapoport PS Does the dimensional reduction of the olfactory phenomenology to the single radial "spherical" dimension at the olfactory bulb indicates a projective geometry with antipodal points identified, as retaken by Freeman from earlier research? Would that be indeed the case, then finite sections of the bulb would be Mobius strips :-) (!!) 2017-01-24 7:24 GMT-03:00 Andrew Fingelkurts / BM-Science <[email protected]>: Dear All, In relation to the below mentioned “any non-linear thermodynamical system actually increases to develop a singularity which is followed by the reorganization of the system through negative entropy, following the destruction of the system in its previous form” we would like to comment that exactly the same principle is observed in the nested hierarchy of the brain electromagnetic field that supports the nested hierarchy of mentality and consciousness in particular (for a complete description and discussion, please see http://www.bm-science.com/team/art76.pdf) Greetings, Andrew and Alexander From: Fis [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diego Lucio Rapoport Sent: Monday, 23 January, 2017 05:28 To: [email protected]; [email protected]; Jeremy Dunning-Davies Cc: fis; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Fis] [Sadhu Sanga] Physics hype ... Dear Colleagues Returning to the issue discussed by Dr Rich Norman of the validity of the second law of thermodynamics in relation to biology where negative entropy drives systems to self-organize, I would like to comment that any non-linear thermodynamical system actually increases to develop a singularity which is followed by the reorganization of the system through negative entropy, following the destruction of the system in its previous form. This is related to the non-orientability -say Mobius strip- of the compactified complex number system as discussed in https://www.academia.edu/30485983/Klein_Bottle_Logophysics_Self-reference_He terarchies_Genomic_Topologies_Harmonics_and_Evolution._Part_I_Morphomechanic s_Space_and_Time_in_Biology_and_Physics_Cognition_Non-Linearity_and_the_Stru cture_of_Uncertainty and the implications to chemistry, biology, cognition, metamathematics, genomics and evolution are discussed in https://www.academia.edu/30546256/Klein_Bottle_Logophysics_Self-reference_He terarchies_Genomic_Topologies_Harmonics_and_Evolution._Part_II_Non-orientabi lity_Cognition_Chemical_Topology_and_Eversions_in_Nature https://www.academia.edu/30518156/Klein_Bottle_Logophysics_Self-reference_He terarchies_Genomic_Topologies_Harmonics_and_Evolution._Part_III_The_Klein_Bo ttle_Logic_of_Genomics_and_its_Dynamics_Quantum_Information_Complexity_and_P alindromic_Repeats_in_Evolution Best regards Diego Rapoport w). Thank you for starting this topic, Dr. Ford. Your piece is correct by my estimation, and fits quite exactly with many statements in our new book. [Are you familiar with Bechamp?…that chalk sir! You may request a paper which makes tangible use of physics within cell biology. Those were stunning images in your paper.] There is a great deal of this rot in physics and cosmology. Before I begin a new thread concerning causality, I must add my sad approval to the exhausted refrain below, which did not offend me in any way. The situation in my broken country and the world inspires such painful honesty. I will put a link to a paper concerning gravitation which is in keeping, added below the following comment by Eric Sabo, and then a possible explanation. “At CERN and Fermilab, no two collisions are exactly the same. Their efforts are a waste of time as any particles they create only last nanoseconds and then they "evaporate". The really odd thing is not one physicist at those facilities ever ask "Where did they evaporate to?"... (The only logical answer is, back to the Aether.) It's just a jobs program for physicists. What's really odd is they pat themselves on the backs and hand out Nobel Prizes for their efforts. I see the real benefit of those projects is that it's all good magnet R&D...... (For future Antimatter Containment) . . . .Residing in the urban environment give me the impression that the stupid people have propagated out of control. And, every one of them has the right to exist..... and vote!....... (There's no hope for Humanity.)” You sir, are right! https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310845151_Practical_and_theoretical _assessment_of_relativistic_theory_v_2?ev=prf_pub I have just completed a book detailing a great deal of this kind of thing. A LONG book, gentlemen! Science hype, and deception. Just look at all that overstatement and deception. Have you read the papers debunking LIGO? Here is our new book Beyond the Veil: Deception, truth and the hidden promise of science. https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Veil-Deception-Thoughts-Conventional/dp/154111 7409/ref=sr_1_1?s=books <https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Veil-Deception-Thoughts-Conventional/dp/15411 17409/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483385806&sr=1-1> &ie=UTF8&qid=1483385806&sr=1-1 Here is a new thought for you: Does the second law of thermodynamics imply by necessity the social turbulence we see all around us? The answer is no, entropy increase itself does not imply social discord as a necessary consequence. Biological life is itself an expression of negative entropy, an exporting of entropy in order to sustain itself and its organized processes. The biology should by multiplicative extension increase negative entropy through numerical increase. I will speculate to explain the effects witnessed: The effect we see, the social horror then, I will hypothesize is a function of the lack of emergent intelligence from the new larger system. Instead of a healthy intra-connected single human system, as analogously in the case of a mat of bacteria relating to its cohabited environment, the connection between the microorganisms fostering a cooperative intelligence to emerge which guides proliferation and development <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296687326_Physical_Non-Contact_Com munication_between_Microscopic_Aquatic_Species_Novel_Experimental_Evidences_ for_an_Interspecies_Information_Exchange?enrichId=rgreq-509630d830172fd20d25 2b3bd4d6f19c-XXX&enrichSource=Y292ZXJQYWdlOzI5NjY4NzMyNjtBUzozMzU5NTA0MDk0Mj A4MDdAMTQ1NzEwODIyNzI5NQ%3D%3D&el=1_x_2&_esc=publicationCoverPdf> , a function terminated with interrupted intra-connectivity, our race is set against itself, the single system broken apart, our unconscious connectivity in my estimation has been shut off: we compete at every turn, and our mental topography has removed the inner means to support the healthy effect! I believe, the paper linked below contains the answer. To have altered the aspects in this document, has changed my ‘luck.’ My entire world seems effortless and on track. I believe, the loss of identifications with the world and our fellow humans is the cause of the discord. Theoretically, as a mat of bacteria, we should operate in cooperative mutual adjustment with the other organisms which share our environment…I hypothesize: but for this. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309566203_Super-ego_and_the_neurosc ience_of_empathy_from_unconscious_wish_to_manifest_behavior--a_new_human_mod el Thank you for all this new thinking. The recent email from John Kineman was simply excellent. I will begin a thread later on related topics. Thank you, Rich Norman Journal of Unconscious Psychology www.mindmagazine.net http://squa62.wix.com/future-life-net On Jan 11, 2017, at 7:42 AM, Prof. Brian J Ford <[email protected]> wrote: The extraordinary hyperbole surrounding theoretical physics and cosmology is disproportionate in comparison with sciences with which people should be familiar; I have addressed this in a shortly published article (attached, and in confidence). There are strong resonances with the mythical world of Jonathan Swift in all this. On the safety of nuclear explosions, although the atomic bomb's capacity for destruction was less than some had predicted, bear in mind (as I have discussed in a recent book) that the Little Boy bomb dropped on Hiroshima contained 59 kg U235, of which only 600 mg was released as thermal energy. Had it all been converted, as some were anticipating, it would have been 100,000 times as powerful. Best wishes Brian J Ford Cambridge UK ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:06 AM Subject: RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego My apologies if I have offended anyone. It's just sometimes I think that I am really tired of everything. (Especially the recent US election.) Thank you again. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego From: "'BMP' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." <[email protected]> Date: Mon, January 09, 2017 6:25 am To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Thank you, Eric for your intelligent if brutal honesty. Bhakti Madhava Puri, Ph.D. BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture <http://bviscs.org/> & Science BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science Visit us on Facebook <http://facebook.com/bviscs> <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/facebook.png> Security Check Required _____ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 5:01 AM Subject: RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego Good answer. What really disturbs me is the ability of the individual to construct a reality for themselves that is based in no factual evidence at all. What's even more disturbing is the will of some to impose their reality on others even though the imposer knows that the reality they are imposing is false. An ignorant or illiterate can also create a false reality and impose it on others if they have a strong enough personality and that is even more disturbing. Perhaps that is the true reason for Sharia Law to exist. It would appear to be a unifying set of rules that unites and controls an otherwise barbaric and chaotic mass of ignorant people that would be without discipline without it. My reality is the universe is dynamical chaos that manages to fall within parameter. For example; All Oak trees are Oaks yet, no two are ever the exactly same. No two Vidalia onions are exactly the same. No two stars are exactly the same. At CERN and Fermilab, no two collisions are exactly the same. Their efforts are a waste of time as any particles they create only last nanoseconds and then they "evaporate". The really odd thing is not one physicist at those facilities ever ask "Where did they evaporate to?"... (The only logical answer is, back to the Aether.) It's just a jobs program for physicists. What's really odd is they pat themselves on the backs and hand out Nobel Prizes for their efforts. I see the real benefit of those projects is that it's all good magnet R&D...... (For future Antimatter Containment) We probably shouldn't be upset about anything. Sometimes I consider that I am the only entity in existence and that everything and everyone in my reality is a construct for my amusement. (Or torture lately..... LOL) (You can't enjoy the good times without a little bad.) Residing in the urban environment give me the impression that the stupid people have propagated out of control. And, every one of them has the right to exist..... and vote!....... (There's no hope for Humanity.) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego From: "'BMP' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." <[email protected]> Date: Fri, January 06, 2017 9:18 am To: Online Sadhu Sanga <[email protected]> On Jan 4 2017 [email protected] wrote: > "The reality we accept is a human construct.”(Deepak Chopra) >I have observed that people do indeed create their own reality. Some even are able to alter >others reality by their mere physical presence. The problem I have with all of it is, all >their realities would seem to be false. REPLY This seems to be as concise an assessment of the situation as any already presented. It is reasonable to say that individuals may have different interpretations of reality, but in itself Reality is not simply a matter of being a human construct or there would be no meaning to 'error,' 'mistake,' 'illusion,' and so on. Indeed there would be no meaning to 'truth' as opposed to untruth. Human consciousness is limited to its body. An individual is conscious o nly to the limits of its skin or surface. One may see a tree, or a star, or a bat - but that same individual cannot know or be conscious of what it is like to be a bat, as one recent American philosopher, Thomas Nagel, famously announced in The Philosophical Review in October 1974. A human being has direct consciousness of its body and of its thoughts, but beyond that it has only representations (signs), images, or reflections (on the mind's mirror) of the world outside its body. Human consciousness is therefore NOT the consciousness of trees, stars, bats, or anything else. It is conscious of other things beyond its body, but not the consciousness of those things. However, there is a consciousness of both individual human consciousness and the other things/persons of which an individual may be conscious. That universal consciousness is not only the consciousness of all Reality but also the consciousness of itself, i.e. it is self-consciousness in and for Itself. This universal self-consciousness is identical with itself as Reality, since Reality is the manifestation or expression of itself as real (being-for-other, or Otherness), while not losing its being-for-itself or self-consciousness as its ideality or Self-Concept. Here we find the true dynamic meaning of Advaita (non-duality), or the negation of dvaita (duality). Reality as the Otherness of Universal Self-consciousness is simultaneously Other (different from) yet identical (same as) universal Self consciousness being the manifest determinateness of what Self-consciousness is. To strip Universal Self-consciousness of its Reality is to abstract consciousness from its concrete Truth as Self-consciousness of Itself. In other words, it is to end up with a one-sided mental abstraction from the concrete or whole truth. There are two mistakes here: 1. not only is Universal Self-consciousness abstracted from Its own Reality, but 2. Self-consciousness is naievly reduced to consciousness which lacks the integral unity essential to it (the Self or true Ego) - what Kant called the unity of apperception. These mistakes are the result of relying on contingent irrational intuitions (instincts) without proper philosophical study or knowledge of the logical necessity that governs the internal rationality of all thought sequences or movement. Philosophers of Spirit have studied and reached rational conclusions on the nature of consciousness and its ground in Spirit. Those who ignore that body of knowledge are illiterate and can only be victimized by their own conditioned instincts. That is not how human knowledge or science advances. When an image is reflected in a mirror, the image is not considered to be the result of glass and silver of the mirror somehow acting to create the image. The image has its orgin outside of the mirror and is made of completely different stuff. A tree reflected in a lake is not made of water. A radio playing back a broadcast it has received is not producing the broadcast from itself. Each of these examples provide metaphors for how to understand the difference between a reality outside of human consciousness can be reflected within an individual's consciousness without being the product of that consciousness. At the same time Reality is not fixed in stone; it is not an inert slab or impersonal substance. It does not exist only as a reflection within human consciousness, nor as a product of human consciousness. Such ideas do not pass the examination of rational thought. The idea that Reality is Self-conscious Thinking Being in and for itself [Spirit/God] does not suffer that defect. An individual is a finite moment or instantiation of Living Reality that reflects that Reality immanently within its infinitesimal self and can interpret or misinterpret it according to the extent of its knowledge and wisdom. Sincerely, Bhakti Madhava Puri, Ph.D. http://bviscs.org <http://bviscs.org/> BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science Visit us on Facebook <http://facebook.com/bviscs> ======================== Original message appears in Sadhu sanga digest for Jan 3 - 4 contact ([email protected] <http://[email protected]/> ) Jan 4 "The reality we accept is a human construct.”(Deepak Chopra) I have observed that people do indeed create their own reality. Some even are able to alter others reality by their mere physical presence. The problem I have with all of it is, all their realities would seem to be false. Being an electrical contractor my entire working life, I have observed the following scenario; I am working in a large commercial building with a thousand people sitting in cubicles with phones and computers. There's everyone from CEO to janitor working there also. Suddenly, "Boom" the electricity for the entire building goes out. Until I can rush to the main distribution switchgear and restore power, they all become totally useless. If the power went out permanently, they would all be sitting around candles chanting "Nam myoho renge kyo". It's actually a frightening scenario to me. Some say, "Who would want to live without electricity." -- ---------------------------- BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives http://bviscs.org/reports Science and Scientist - 2016 http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016 Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191 Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org <http://bviscs.org/> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org <http://scsiscs.org/> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- ---------------------------- BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives http://bviscs.org/reports Science and Scientist - 2016 http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016 Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191 Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org <http://bviscs.org/> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org <http://scsiscs.org/> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- ---------------------------- BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives http://bviscs.org/reports Science and Scientist - 2016 http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016 Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191 Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org <http://bviscs.org/> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org <http://scsiscs.org/> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- ---------------------------- BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives http://bviscs.org/reports Science and Scientist - 2016 http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016 Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191 Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org <http://bviscs.org/> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org <http://scsiscs.org/> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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