To clarify my previous point about paradox: When G. S. Brown deals with re-entrant forms by introducing time, and Gregory Bateson reframes logical type violation on the analogy of an electric buzzer, both do indeed include an additional dimension. This is not the same as Bateson's concept of "double description" (though he does use this to talk about the way that stereoscopic vision creates the experience of depth - even though not using the same logic). Finally, the use of "imaginary" (complex) numbers to generate additional dimensions of quantitative representation (noting that 0 X i = 0 X 1 so that the axes intersect a zero) is standard. Indeed the fact that this operation can be indefinitely iterated (as in j squared = -i , etc.) shows that this is a general mathematical principle. I am sure that many of you are familiar with other variants of this same operation. But it is important not to confuse this with simply amplifying mental descriptors. My only point at this stage was to show why this operation is relevant for understanding the generation of normativity and intrinsic (not extrinsically interpreted) agency.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:59 AM, Mark Johnson <johnsonm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Arturo, Joseph, all, > > This seems a very productive line of thought. But is "dimension" the right > word? > > Lou, for example, has just exercised his agency in producing a > wonderful alternative description of Russell's paradox. Is it another > dimension? Or is it just another description? It seems very similar to > what Bateson does in Chapter 3 of Mind and Nature ("Multiple > descriptions of the world") where he discusses the representation of a > quadratic equation. > > By "dimension", do you refer to the countable elements that would be > considered in the Shannon equation (i.e. the the number of discrete > components comprising a message)? The index in Shannon is not the same > as a physical dimension, and as Bob Ulanowicz pointed out a couple of > weeks ago, Shannon's weakness is that he cannot account for shifts in > the distinctions which are drawn between countable things. > > As Loet has discussed, the relation between alternative descriptions > is one of overlap of constraint: mutual redundancy is core to it. > There is mutual redundancy in between Lou's description and > Krassimer's description. The paper on mutual redundancy that Loet sent > round a while ago spells this out very clearly. > > As an educationalist, this resonates with me. Gordon Pask, who was a > pioneer in educational technology, explained that understanding is > expressed through the capacity to generate multiple redundant > descriptions of phenomena. > > Dimension, as it is used in physics, is not this. > > best wishes, > > Mark > > On 26 October 2017 at 07:54, Joseph Brenner <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> > wrote: > > Dear Arturo, > > > > I think this formulation is correct and very useful. It implies, in the > > formal sense of real implication, a dynamics of emergence of the more > > complex states. Gerhard Luhn has also pointed to this emergence (he > calls it > > of 'new laws') as a property of the universe, of which are our brains > are a > > fairly interesting part. . . > > > > As in Terry's recent note, this 'enriched' input avoids the > straitjackets of > > binary values or simple self-contradiction. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Joseph > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: tozziart...@libero.it > > To: fis@listas.unizar.es > > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:45 AM > > Subject: [Fis] Adding dimensions > > > > Dear FISers, > > > > it is clear (and it has been demonstrated) that what you call "agent" is > > something that... increases the dimensions of the discourse. > > > > For example, our brain, rather than "extract" information from the > > environment, makes exactly the opposite process, by "diluting" and > > "increasing" it. > > Starting from sensorial inputs from the 3D (plus time) environmental > data, > > our brain processes them in 4D plus time (or even more!) dimensions. > This > > means that, when I see a cat in the street, my mind enriches it with > other > > dimensions (emotions: "how nice is that cat!"; higher brain activities: > > "that cat is a feline"; and so on) > > > > Arturo Tozzi > > > > AA Professor Physics, University North Texas > > > > Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy > > > > Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba > > > > http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/ > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fis mailing list > > Fis@listas.unizar.es > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fis mailing list > > Fis@listas.unizar.es > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > -- > Dr. Mark William Johnson > Institute of Learning and Teaching > Faculty of Health and Life Sciences > University of Liverpool > > Phone: 07786 064505 > Email: johnsonm...@gmail.com > Blog: http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > -- Professor Terrence W. Deacon University of California, Berkeley

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