Inclined to agree with Joseph. I would like to point out that there are
different meanings for "real', and one has to be clear about ones
metaphysics to make the idea (somewhat) clear. Peirce, for example,
would call Plato's shadows (which aren't really shadows at all, real,
but not existent. The sort of shadows that we normal experience are both
real and existent on Peirce's account.
John
On 2018/02/26 4:58 AM, joe.bren...@bluewin.ch wrote:
Dear FISers,
With all due respect to Krassimir, Sung, and his son, it is
becoming a matter of scientific interest that statements by them
and others to the effect that "systematic research of what the
'shadows' are a part" has not been done are made routinely. First
of all, the logic in reality of Lupasco about which I have been
talking here for 10 years, includesa new mereology in which the
dynamic relations between part and whole are set out for
discussion. Second, while the 'diagram' of Merleau-Ponty may be
considered interesting as philosophy and as a foundation of
religious belief, I see no reason to include it, without heavy
qualification, in a discussion of the foundations of information
science.
Thank you,
Joseph
----Message d'origine----
De : s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu
Date : 25/02/2018 - 15:04 (PST)
À : ag...@ncf.ca, fis@listas.unizar.es
Objet : Re: [Fis] The shadows are real !!!
Hi Krassimir,
I agree with you that "/The shadows are real/ but only a part
of the whole. What is needed is a systematic research from
what they are part."
In my previous post, I was suggesting that Shadows are a part
of the irreudicible triad consisting of *Form (A), Shadow (B)
*and*Thought (C)*. The essential notion of the ITR
(Irreducible Triadic realrtion) is that A, B, and C cannot be
reduced to any one or a pair of the triad. This
automatically means that 'Shadow' is a part of the whole triad
(which is, to me, another name for the Ultimate Reality), as
Form and Thought are. In other words, the Ultimate Reality is
not Form nor Shadow nor Thought individually but all of them
together, since they constitute an irreducible triad. This
idea is expressed in 1995 in another way: The Ultimate
Reality is the /complementary union/ of the /Visble/ and the
/Invisible World/ (see *Table 1* attached). Apparently a
similar idea underlies the philosophy of Maurice Merleau-Ponty
(1908-1961), according to my son, Douglas Sayer Ji (see his
semior research thesis submitted in 1996 to the Department of
Philosophy at Rutgers University under the guidance of B.
Wilshire, attached).
All the best.
Sung
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Fis <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of John
Collier <ag...@ncf.ca>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 25, 2018 2:51 PM
*To:* fis@listas.unizar.es
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] The shadows are real !!!
Daer Krassimir, List
I basically support what you are saying. I understand the
mathematics you presented, I am good at mathematics and
studied logic with some of the best. However, and this is a
big however, giving a mathematical or logical proof by itself,
in its formalism, does not show anything at all. One has to be
able to connect teh mathematics to experience in a
comprehensible way. This was partly the topic of my
dissertation, and I take a basically Peircean approach, though
there are others that are pretty strong as well.
I fgenerally skip over the mathematics and look for the
empirical connections. If I find them, then generally all
becomes clear. Without this, the formalism is nothing more
than formalism. It does not help to give formal names to
things and assume that this identifies things, Often trying to
follow up approaches kine this is a profound waste of time. I
try to, and often am able to, express my ideas in a nonformal
way. Some mathematically oriented colleagues see this as
automatically defective, since they think that formal
representation is all that really rigorously explains things.
This sort of thinking (in Logical Positivism) eventually led
to its own destruction as people started to ask the meaning of
theoretical terms and their relation to observations. It is a
defunct and self destructive metaphysics. Irt leads nowhere --
my PhD thesis was about this problem. It hurts me to see
people making the same mistake, especially when it leads them
to bizarre conclusions that are compatible with the formalism
(actually, it is provable that almost anything is compatible
with a specific formalism, up to numerosity).
I don't like to waste my time with such emptiness,
John
On 2018/02/25 6:22 PM, Krassimir Markov wrote:
Dear Sung,
I like your approach but I think it is only a part of the whole.
1. */The shadows are real/* but only a part of the whole.
What is needed is a systematic research from what they are part.
2. About the whole now I will use the category theory I have
seen you like:
/CAT_A => F => CAT_B => G => CAT_C /
//
/CAT_A => H => CAT_C /
//
/_F ○ G = H /
where
/F/, /G/, and /H/ are /*functors*/;
/CAT_II Î CAT/ is the category of /*information interaction
categories*/;
/CAT_A Î CAT_II / and /CAT_C Î CAT_II / are the categories
of */mental models’ categories/*;
/CAT_B Î CAT_II / is the category of */models’ categories/*.
Of course, I will explain this in natural language (English)
in further posts.
Smile
;
Dear Karl,
Thank you for your post – it is very useful and I will discus
it in further posts.
;
Dear Pedro,
Thank you for your nice words.
Mathematics is very good to be used when all know the
mathematical languages.
Unfortunately, only a few scientists are involved in the
mathematical reasoning, in one hand, and, as the Bourbaki
experiment had shown, not everything is ready to be formalized.
How much of FIS members understood what I had written above?
The way starts from philosophical reasoning and only some
times ends in mathematical formal explanations.
Friendly greetings
Krassimir
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