Hey folks, to keep up the thinking ;) After some days of testing, testing and well... testing the UML tools out there, I think I finally found something that might work well for me. My tool of choice is Enterprise Architect by SparxSoftware: http://www.sparxsystems.com
Some of the others, that I had my hands on are: * ArgoUML * MagicDraw * Visio * some others They all - well, except Visio which s*cks - have a touch of Java in them - as if it is the only programming language available. In my opinion, the Enterprise Architect will be the best solution for me, since it is the most unspecific in terms of the programming languages. It has Actionscript support implementet though, but I didn't see the need to turn that on explicitly. Again, thanks for all your interest in the discussion. Cheers, Thomas ------------------------------------ Thomas Rühl Design, Programming & Concepts akitogo OHG Hanauer Landstrasse 188 60314 Frankfurt Telefon +49 (0) 69 800 69 445 Fax +49 (0) 69 800 69 449 Mobil +49 (0) 179 750 75 87 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web http://www.akitogo.com ------------------------------------ Bjorn Schultheiss wrote: > > D, > > OK cool, > > I retract the comment earlier about the contradicting statement. > > From your description i see the combination of both the HOW and the > WHAT as the definition of a front end developer. > My understanding is that the HOW process is where the designer aspect > of the developer comes into play and the WHAT process is where the OOP > Code Freak aspect of the developer comes into play. > To me the HOW is a visual question while the WHAT is the > code implementation of the HOW solution. > > Perhaps this definition is not what originally intended but does it > make sense? > > Regards, > > Bjorn Schultheiss > Senior Flash Developer > QDC Technologies > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > *On Behalf Of *Dave Wolf > *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 August 2006 10:46 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: [Flex2] What do you use for modelling a > Flex2 application...? > > > I think you are misunderstanding that I am saying. Let me try it this > way and see if my point comes across more clearly. > > A large portion of UML is dedicated to answering the question of WHAT > you are developing. For example, use cases and activity diagrams both > focus on figuring out WHAT the problem set involves. So as an > example, WHAT you are designing might be an account registration > process which needs to support the ability to validate a users > password by a pluggable number of password rules. That is the WHAT. > It doesnt go into HOW you plan to implement that screen or process. > > The HOW side would be modelled in something like a class diagram or a > state transtion diagram. It might model that you need to create an > interface (code not graphical interface) which defines an API for a > pluggable set of rules (say the Command pattern that Cainforn loves so > much) etc. UML can wonder from the WHAT and into the HOW in certain > digrams. Some UML tools can generate source code to implement the HOW > side of the equation. > > Yes I would argue that there is a lack of Flex specific UML tooling, > but Flex is very new. I would not be surprised to see more UML code > generation tools. Then again there are actually quite a few UML tools > that can generate AS itself. A quick Google search reveals many. > > http://www.google.com/search?q=actionscript+UML&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official > > <http://www.google.com/search?q=actionscript+UML&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official> > > I'm quite a fan of a product called Enterprise Architect which has > ActionScript 2 support in it. Check it out at > > http://www.sparxsystems.com/ea.htm <http://www.sparxsystems.com/ea.htm> > > Hopefully I made my point about the difference between WHAT and HOW in > UML. The confusion came in that you were not interested in code > generation. > > I will leave my editorial comments about code generation and Caingorn > for another thread. For folks that have followed my threads here for > the last few years I think my position is well known. > > -- > Dave Wolf > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > Adobe Flex Alliance Partner > http://www.cynergysystems.com <http://www.cynergysystems.com> > http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs> > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:dave.wolf%40cynergysystems.com> > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > --- In [email protected] > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com>, "Bjorn Schultheiss" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The cowboy disagrees. > > > > I have just heard you pour your heart out about your innovative > approaches > > to developement process and how cool your UI's are. > > Then in the next paragraph let me quote. > > I dont think that your choice of HOW you develop software has any > impact on > > WHAT you are developing, > > > > I for one would be all for the developement of a UML tool or FB > plugin that > > will generate code that leverages the Cairngorm framework. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Bjorn Schultheiss > > Senior Flash Developer > > QDC Technologies > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: [email protected] > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Dave Wolf > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 August 2006 7:01 AM > > To: [email protected] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [flexcoders] Re: [Flex2] What do you use for modelling a Flex2 > > application...? > > > > > > > > Flex development *is* like traditional development. The richness of > > the user experience and the wonder that you can deliver in terms of > > creativity does not open the door to chaos in the development process. > > > > Just because historically people feel Flash development was "cowboy" > > doesnt mean that Flex development has to assume that role. Our > > clients range from little startups to the second largest retail bank > > in the nation. Cowboy is not an option. > > > > We may have an innovative approach to the development process, one > > which borders on some more bleeding edge ideals (say Agile), however > > the dicipline in the development process is the same. From our model > > and design sessions, to cases in the issue management system, to > > strict use of source control, automated builds and deploys, unit tests > > etc. That's how great software is written regardless of the technology. > > > > We are passionate about the richness of the user experience. You will > > see it in the amazing UI's our folks are building and in our people. > > We are also passionate about the development process. > > > > This thread started by talking about modelling tools and how > > applicable they are to flex. I dont think that your choice of HOW you > > develop software has any impact on WHAT you are developing, and > > modelling is all about WHAT. > > > > -- > > Dave Wolf > > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > > Adobe Flex Alliance Partner > > http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergysystems.com > <http://www.cynergysystems.com>> ystems.com > > http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs > <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs>> > ystems.com/blogs > > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:dave.wolf%40cynergysystems.com> > stems.com > > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > ups.com, > > "Joost Nuijten" <flexcoders@> wrote: > > > > > > Sometimes I wish Flex development was more like traditional > application > > > development. At the other hand I shiver at the thought that the > > coolness of > > > Flex is degraded to this way of working. Flex = Flash. And Flash is > > supposed > > > to be a creative chaos, cool, far away of the boreness of the IT > > world and > > > full of passion. That is how it's supposed to be. > > > > > > But it really depends on your kind of business... > > > > > > ~joost > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > ups.com] > > Namens > > > Thomas Rühl -akitogo- > > > Verzonden: maandag 7 augustus 2006 9:59 > > > Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com > > > Onderwerp: Re: [flexcoders] Re: [Flex2] What do you use for > modelling a > > > Flex2 application...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your interest so far... but this isn't really the > > direction I > > > intended to point out. > > > > > > Dave, I know that the documentation and modelling process basically > > > doesn't depend on HOW an application is written. I'm not trying from > > > model to generated code, although it would be really neat to do so in > > > some cases ;) > > > > > > My concern is to evolve a process, starting with modelling an > > > application the "good old" way using software architecture > > > possibilities. This not only helps me to evaluate and improve an > > > application, in fact it is also important for me regarding > > documentation > > > and maintenance processes. > > > > > > Again, I do not necessarily want to generate the code based on a > UML or > > > other kind of diagrams, my interest targets the development process > > > before actual implementation starts. > > > > > > As I said, for the Java world, there are lots of tools which we are > > > missing for Flex at the moment. Problem being, these tools are mostly > > > Java specific (for which I think they shouldn't), since they DO > want to > > > generate code out of the model. And this is the reason I am > interested > > > in how other folks do the modeling. > > > > > > Cheers, Thomas > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Thomas Rühl > > > Design, Programming & Concepts > > > > > > akitogo OHG > > > Hanauer Landstrasse 188 > > > 60314 Frankfurt > > > > > > Telefon +49 (0) 69 800 69 445 > > > Fax +49 (0) 69 800 69 449 > > > Mobil +49 (0) 179 750 75 87 > > > E-Mail thomas.ruehl@ <mailto:thomas.ruehl%40akitogo.com> akitogo.com > > > Web http://www.akitogo. <http://www.akitogo. > <http://www.akitogo.com <http://www.akitogo.com>> com> > > com > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > > > There are several AS2 model2code generators such as: > > > > http://www.darronsc > > > <http://www.darronsc > > <http://www.darronschall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm > <http://www.darronschall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm>> > > hall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm> > > > hall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm > > > > <http://www.darronsc > > > <http://www.darronsc > > <http://www.darronschall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm > <http://www.darronschall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm>> > > hall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm> > > > hall.com/weblog/archives/000174.cfm> > > > > http://www.codeallo <http://www.codeallo > > <http://www.codealloy.com/umlconverter.htm > <http://www.codealloy.com/umlconverter.htm>> y.com/umlconverter.htm> > > > y.com/umlconverter.htm > > > > <http://www.codeallo <http://www.codeallo > > <http://www.codealloy.com/umlconverter.htm > <http://www.codealloy.com/umlconverter.htm>> y.com/umlconverter.htm> > > > y.com/umlconverter.htm> > > > > and some others I can't remember right now. > > > > > > > > It will just be a matter of time untill someone updates one of the > > > > projects for AS3, and ideally for Cairngorm. > > > > I poked around on sourceforge, but did not see an started project. > > > > > > > > Darron Schall my be willing to provide his source as a starting > point > > > > for anyone looking to pick up the project -- it looks like he has a > > > > SVN repository set for the source. > > > > > > > > --jason > > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > ups.com > > > > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com>, "Joost Nuijten" > > > > <flexcoders@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think what Thomas is trying to say: > > > > > > > > > > In the Java world there are a lot of powerful tools that generate > > > > the base > > > > > skeleton of code out of a model. For the Flex world this is > all hand > > > > work. > > > > > And how do we cope with this? > > > > > > > > > > That is why it is important that we have a framework such as > > > > Cairngorm. The > > > > > one thing that we do not have is an automated tool that > > generates the > > > > > Cairngorm base skeleton. > > > > > > > > > > ** thinking about creating one myself ** > > > > > > > > > > Joost > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > ups.com > > > > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > ups.com > > > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > Namens > > > > > Dave Wolf > > > > > Verzonden: maandag 7 augustus 2006 2:33 > > > > > Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > ups.com > > > <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Onderwerp: [flexcoders] Re: [Flex2] What do you use for > modelling a > > > > Flex2 > > > > > application...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why does the implementation language (the HOW) have anything > > > > > significant to do with the modelling and documentation > solution you > > > > > use (the WHAT) ? > > > > > > > > > > Are you trying to go from model to generated code? > > > > > > > > > > If modelling is important to your development process, tried and > > > > > trusted modelling solutions such as UML would be capable of > > > > > documenting and managing the WHAT side of the development process > > > > > regardless of the implementation HOW language. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Dave Wolf > > > > > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > > > > > Adobe Flex Alliance Partner > > > > > http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergys > > <http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergysystems.com > <http://www.cynergysystems.com>> ystems.com> > > > ystems.com > > > > <http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergys > > <http://www.cynergysystems.com <http://www.cynergysystems.com>> > ystems.com> ystems.com>> > > > ystems.com > > > > > http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergys > > > <http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs > <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs>> > > ystems.com/blogs> ystems.com/blogs > > > > <http://www.cynergys <http://www.cynergys > > <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs > <http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs>> ystems.com/blogs> > > > ystems.com/blogs>> > > > > ystems.com/blogs > > > > > > > > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:dave.wolf%40cynergysystems.com> > > > > stems.com > > > > > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > ups.com, > > > > > Thomas R�hl -akitogo- > > > > > <thomas.ruehl@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > > > > > it's been a while now, since the Flex2 SDK is out and rockin' ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Not only for larger projects, multiple teams or team members and > > > > > > documentation purpose, I'd like to know, what everyone is > > using for > > > > > > modelling a Flex application. For the Java world I know, the > tools > > > > > > available are very powerful and work very well out of the > box and > > > > > > integrate with each other. There are also things like OmondoUML, > > > > which > > > > > > we can be used for designing Java apps (doing use case and > > sequential > > > > > > diagram sort of stuff) in conjunction with creating the > > > > > corresponding code. > > > > > > > > > > > > The lack of Flex-specific tools for that kind of work still > leads > > > > > > towards endless times spent on the drawing table - at least > on my > > > > side.. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the question coming up my mind is, in what ways do you all > > design > > > > > > your Flex applications before/during or after implementation, if > > > > any....? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas R�hl > > > > > > Design, Programming & Concepts > > > > > > > > > > > > akitogo OHG > > > > > > Hanauer Landstrasse 188 > > > > > > 60314 Frankfurt > > > > > > > > > > > > Telefon +49 (0) 69 800 69 445 > > > > > > Fax +49 (0) 69 800 69 449 > > > > > > Mobil +49 (0) 179 750 75 87 > > > > > > E-Mail thomas.ruehl@ > > > > > > Web http://www.akitogo. <http://www.akitogo. > > <http://www.akitogo. <http://www.akitogo.com > <http://www.akitogo.com>> com> > > > com > > > > <http://www.akitogo. <http://www.akitogo. > <http://www.akitogo.com <http://www.akitogo.com>> com> > > com>> com > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! 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