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Not Neccesarily.
When you start talking dedicated server prices can get
quite high.
Chassis, Power Supplies, Bandwidth man the costs keep going
up.
With FDS i think the alternative is how much will it cost
your development team to produce the same result using another
method.
My take, I will be using FDS in our v2 development of our
Application.
Regards,
Bjorn Schultheiss
Senior Flash Developer
QDC Technologies
Hey Michael,
Actually, I think (though I am not sure about this) that
it is no different from deploying any other J2EE application. I dont think you
need root access. I know my main account doesnt have root access on the server
that I deploy FDS on (note: that is for my own safety as I am not a linux guru
and I want protection from myself). But FDS apps are the kind that really do beg
for using dedicated servers. But honestly a dedicated server is a lot less money
than $20,000 :).
Regards,
Hank
On 8/24/06, Michael
Schmalle <teoti.graphix@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hey Hank,
Using FDS also means that you have root access to the
web server right? Seeing as this is Java, you would need permissions to
install in root folders.
So, even if you can use FDS Express, it is
still restricted(not free in the sense of Flex SDK). Dedicated servers are not
cheap.
Peace, Mike
On 8/24/06, hank
williams <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]com> wrote:
Oh, Sorry Jack, I didnt understand that you were asking a licensing
question.
Regards,
Hank
Hank:
Not a
problem.
I
agree overall the web app has a bearing.
However, I just wanted to know how many concurrent users FDS
Express
would
allow.
Also,
with the developmental version what happens when concurrent
user
number
101 comes knocking on the door.
Thanks,
Jack
Subject: Re: [Junk E-Mail -
LOW] [flexcoders] Re: Choice of backend systems - which
provides
Hate to jump in, because I see your question is targeted at ted, but I
have to say one thing. The issue isnt how many users FDS Express can
support but how many users your entire application can support per server.
Because FDS is just a piece of your web application (WAR). So if you are
doing something that is computationally intense or disk access intense it
will suck up system resources more than otherwise, thus reducing the
number of concurrent users your FDS app can support. So you really need to
test your app to see how many concurrent users your apps, without FDS,
will support. Adding FDS to that will obviously consume resources as well.
What this means is FDS is more expensive when attached to a more
"heavy" application.
Regards,
Hank
Ted:
How
many concurrent users can FDS Express support?
On
the departmental version, if the 101st concurrent user tries to connect
is there an
error message or busy message or do they just wait a little
longer to get the data?
Thanks,
Jack
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
FDS Express == 1CPU
FREE
- FDS Express is limited
to one 1 physical CPU (multi-core supported)
- FDS Express cannot be
clustered for failover and redundancy.
All higher level FDS
Licenses address the redundancy and failover aspects for departmental
use (100 concurrent users) and enterprise (unlimited
users).
The blanket statement that
FDS costs $20,000 is dead wrong. For a large majority of projects it is
free, free, free.
Ted
Patrick
Flex
Evangelist
Adobe Systems
Incorporated
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006
11:19 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com
Subject: Re: [Junk E-Mail - LOW]
[flexcoders] Re: Choice of backend systems - which
provides
I
have to agree with Ted regarding productivity.
Of course I may
just be revealing that I am not as smart as the rest of you, but when I
was considering various means of connecting to my java server during the
transition to Flex2, I explored Axis and Axis2 for web services.
Figuring out how to use them was *no joke*. I am sure if I had
dedicated the time to it I could have gotten up and running. But,
honestly, I gave up after several days of study.
The Axis
umailing list was fairly useless for beginners, there were lots of
people having problems with Axis2 and the documentation was almost
unbearable. Now if you are already an expert then none of this applies
to you. But the idea that from flash that you can just call your server
side code just by declaring the classes you are working with in a
configuration file is magic. It is so easy. Of course the typing issues
on web services sound like a bear too and there are none with remoting,
but I cant really talk about that because I never got that far with web
services.
FDS and Flex2 are far far easier to work with. My only
problem with FDS is pricing. Remoting used to cost $1000 or so per
server, or it was free if you used an open source solution. Now it costs
$20,000 per server after you need more than one server. I may actually
have to switch back to an AMF0 version of remoting by the time my first
server is overwhelmed because $20k is insane. I am using amazon S3 and
for 20k worth of bandwidth and storage I could support millions of users
over a year. but 20k in FDS software probably only supports 100k users.
So the economics of FDS are insane. They are probably driven by the
desire not to screw the Flex 1.5 people who paid a lot of money for
their servers. Nevertheless, for remoting only apps FDS pricing is the
only reason not to use it. But technically if you dont have to learn web
services FDS will save you a lot of time.
Regards,
Hank
On 8/23/06, Ted Patrick <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]com> wrote:
AMF is faster in 3
fundamental ways:
- Bandwidth Size –
Smaller, lighter, faster!!!
- Parsing Speed – Less
work on both client and server!!!
- Developer Productivity –
Less work for developers!!!
Web Services are dependent
on XML Parsing on both the client and server side. Although it's a good
story, XML parsers are not very efficient as parsing documents is an
interpreted process. The Flash Player XML parser will always be
dramatically slower than AMF parsing, binary formats are notoriously
faster in this regard.
XML parsing additionally
decays rapidly as the file size increases. Flash Player XML parsing time
increase non-linearly with larger XML documents. With AMF parsing times
are linear with data size. The XML decay can be attributed to the number
of inner objects that need to be created during a parsing run. AMF
objects are 1:1 with the data received where XML data is 1:N per
Elements/Attribute.
Comparing XML to AMF is an
unfair race, AMF wins every time. When you add in the overhead of WS
SOAP parsing atop the base XML parser speed you begin to see performance
issues. With SOAP, you interpret an XML document back into typed objects
depending on the SOAP specifics used. Sure 350ms is ok once or twice,
but try doing 200 transactions in this format and you will see
performance issues arise. Using Web Services you are forcing the Flash
Player to do allot of unneeded work. The goal is to build richer
applications, not burn up player performance in crud
operations.
Additionally non-proxied
Web Service use suffers with Flash Player because of the browser
variation in the plug-in APIS. You cannot get the 500 Errors response
content in IE and thus the SOAP fault standard breaks down. In SOAP
there are important messages that arrive with 500 Errors and the
inability of the Flash Player to receive these is a problem.
Unfortunately there is no seamless way to get 500 Errors into the Flash
Player other then rewriting an HTTP Client in the Socket class. This
effort would also require a new SOAP library within Flex and socket use
on low ports requires a more complex crossdomain.xml configuration.
Even then you still suffer the same performance
issues.
Performance aside, the
productivity discussion is much more important. AMF3 and Flex Data
Services are wildly productive. Once you compile your Java Class and
configure a destination in FDS (1 XML Element), you are done. All typing
is handled, All methods are ready to run with any number of client
applications. It is the easiest way to create a server side API that I
know of. Actually most cases, implementing FDS will removes $20,000 of
developer time wasted on implementing other data exchange for an
application. FDS value is easy to see when viewed through this
productivity ROI metric. If you add CF integration into FDS, you enjoy
an even more productive jump. We spend so much time talking about
performance but we often waste so much developer time doing mundane data
exchange when things could be automated.
Having worked at Cynergy
Systems, everyone needs to realize that Carson, Dave and Team are
industry leading professionals at Web Services. They know SOAP better
than any single consulting firm that I know of. These guys were on teams
at Sybase and Microsoft building the first generation of Web Services
integration servers (MS BizTalk, EAServer)!!! They have the expertise to
make Web Services/JAVA work seamlessly with Flex but this is out of
reach for most (unless you hire them). They can jump through flaming
hoops that few developers can with the FLEX / TOMCAT / AXIS / JAVA
stack. They have been down a very hard road and have learning all the
tricks to making this stack work very well for their clients. Looking
back and knowing what I know now about Flex Data Services much of this
hard work could have been dramatically simplified and automated (but
then again Flex 2/FDS hadn't shipped yet…). FDS makes all this hard work
evaporate and makes easy for anyone to exchange data like an industry
leading professional.
The really funny part is
that we are only talking about the RPC portions of Flex Data Services.
Messaging and Data Management are really valuable features to understand
and explore. These two features are 70% of the FDS product. We(Adobe)
need to do a better job of making this value crystal clear.
Flex Data Services is the
most productive and high performance way to exchange data with the Flash
Player. Period, Hands Down, Next!
My 2
cents,
Ted
Patrick
Flex
Evangelist
Adobe Systems
Incorporated
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