Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?

Thu, 05 Oct 2006 10:43:53 -0700

Kirk,

I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts.

You started off your first post with "we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash".  So I assume that your team has no deep competency with either Flex or Flash.  Is this correct?

For developing RIAs, I suggest you make Flex 2 your default choice with a side investigation of how to use Flash 9 (or for now Flash 8 Pro with the Flash Pro 9 ActionScript 3.0 Preview).

There are a number of points of comparison between Flex and Flash.  When developing RIAs one that is very relevant is the choice between using the prebuilt component framework in Flex 2 vs building your own components in Flash 8 or 9.

Also, the whole development process is very different.  Will you be having your ASP.NET developers cross training?  If so Flex 2 likely will prove to be more familiar and easier for them to come up to speed on quickly.  Flash authoring, on the other hand, uses paradigms that likely are unfamiliar to more traditional developers such as is taught in university computer science programs.  For a quick sense of how Flash development may look to traditional coders, in this following article see the section under the heading:  "We Call This 'The Timeline.' No, Wait, Come Back!"
www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flash_perspective.html

Regarding "video-heavy applications" I see no inherent advantage of Flash over Flex (or vice versa).

One potential disadvantage of Flex 2 is that it is ActionScript 3 only.  But this is only a disadvantage if you have existing Flash ActionScript 2 components, because as Robert hinted in his post at run time AS3 and AS2 components are limited in their ability to talk to each other.  Aside from that, however, the advantages of AS3 over AS2 are enormous.

Regarding the specific issue you stated that "we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2", that is only partly true.  As of Flash Player 9 (FP9), there are two Actionscript Virtual Machines (AVM).  AS3 pcode runs in FP9's new AVM2, and the pcode from AS2 and earlier run in AVM1.  At runtime, code can be running in both AVM1 and AVM2 at the same time, but they can not pass values directly between the AVMs.  Though they can pass values through external APIs (in his post Robert mentioned localconnection).  So, though you CAN "mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2", there are limitations.  Thus this is one case where shops with legacy AVM1 code may have an incentive to convert their legacy code to AS3.  For a great walkthrough of what is new with FP9, AS3 and the AVM2 check out this presentation by Gary Grossman, lead developer on the Flash Player team and an Adobe Senior Scientist.
http://seminars.breezecentral.com/p64058844/

On another issue, your posts are the first I have heard anyone raising concerns about "one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex."  Whether you author in Flash or Flex it all compiles down to the same pcode.  It really is just dependent on the skills of your developers.  Furthermore, as Nick said in his reply, "You should use both."  And "it's not an either/or situation."  I actually would love it if you could have your source on this concern post back on this thread with more details.  The broad community of "Flash Platform" developers continue to grapple with how get the most out of the vast and amazing tools that Adobe has given us :-)

 Should you want to solicit comments that may favor Flash more over Flex, you might also want to put your post up over on the Flashcoders list:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders

Should you want to solicit comments from Flash/Flex video specialists, you might also want to put your post up over on the FlashMedia list:
http://www.flashcomguru.com/flashmedialist/

And by the way, can you spare 3 days later this month?  If so you really should come to MAX!  It will be the ideal forum for you to hammer out a definitive plan of action.  The Flex 2 team will be there in force.  The Flash team will be there in force.  And a large part of the community developing in both will be there too.

Just to give you a flavor, here are 4 sessions that seem pretty on point to your requirement:
Regardless what you decide, please do post back to this list and let us know what you decided (and maybe even why :-)

hth,

g


On 10/4/06, Kirk Marple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
interesting...  one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex.
 
i was told that only simple looping animations were possible because we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2.
 
maybe the new AS3 preview will solve that, since we could script animations using AS3 in regular Flash 8 Professional.
 
am i totally off-base here in what i've been told?
 
thanks,
Kirk

From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Collins
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:58 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?

The fact of the matter is that it's not an either/or situation. You should use both. For the logic and coding you definitely want to be using Flex with SVN for obvious reasons, and for building the skins of the UI components to create the "cinematic experience" you want to be using Flash.

On 10/4/06, Renaun Erickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between a
couple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tons
of work done with out working about who has the latest file. Granted
you could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files but
that is also messy in its own right.

Renaun

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com , "Kirk Marple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash,
and have
> been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro.
>
> can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when
> developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8?
>
> we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another.
>
> specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to
> easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to be
constrained by
> the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and ability
to have a
> "cinematic" look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy
> application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly and
playback.
>
> thanks for any input!
> Kirk
>
> -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
> Kirk Marple
> Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering
> Agnostic Media, Inc.
> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> w: www.agnostic-media.com < http://www.agnostic-media.com/>


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