Apologies if my comments were a little (OK a lot) "caustic" earlier; I guess
I got out of the wrong side of the bed on a Monday morning :P
Our focus for the upcoming 2.0 release has been security and we will proceed
with release when the features that we want to see completed (that Craig has
mentioned previously). We're currently suggesting that the focus for
the 2.xrelease should be on the Web application and so I would expect
that any
changes in line with your suggestions would occur then.
I really do appreciate your offer of assistance with the features that you
have suggested and hope that between us all we can come up with the specs
that you need.
Thanks,
Derek.
On 8/13/07, Qasper Tech Support <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Geez, what's in your coffee? I didn't ask for anyone in the "community"
> to volunteer. I offered to pay the whole cost of implementing these
> user-friendly features out of my pocket through outsourcing...
>
> All I asked is for someone with deep knowledge to set out the steps on
> implementing them so that I can get the job done. It's far more efficient
> for someone who is very familiar with FlexWiki to spend a little time
> detailing how we would do the work than for me or one of us to spend dozens
> of hours getting into the source code.
>
> Thanks for the caustic comments.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Derek Lakin
> *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2007 2:34 AM
> *To:* FlexWiki Users Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [Flexwiki-users] Shipping FlexWiki 2.0 - Proposed Feature
> List
>
>
>
>
> On 8/13/07, Qasper Tech Support <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Craig,
> >
> > I am unable to log into the current version - once log in fails (because
> > I don't have an account), I'm locked out completely so I can't look at the
> > "one-button" namespace creation.
> >
>
> For obvious reasons, the general public don't have access to the
> Flexwiki.com <http://flexwiki.com/> Admin pages. You could always download
> a copy of FlexWiki, install it yourself, and examine the admin setup
> yourself.
>
>
>
> > Re: 2 - using Windows authentication is way too tied into Windows. In
> > most end-user apps, the users register into a database table. That offers
> > significant flexibility to the app and allows it to work outside Windows
> > control. It's critical, IMO, to a successful, independent wiki.
> >
>
> As Craig pointed out, "Windows Authentication is just one possible store"
> for authentication. We use standard ASP.NET <http://asp.net/>authentication,
> which is then outside of FlexWiki. You can implement
> whatever authentication you like. If you use IIS7, you can even administer
> the ASP.NET <http://asp.net/> Authentication database from within IIS
> Manager.
>
>
> > If dummies like me and a couple of my crew can do the whole
> > www.Qasper.com <http://www.qasper.com/> thing, including some fairly
> > complex user registration, it should be easy for you guys to spec a method I
> > can outsource. You know the inner workings of FlexWiki. Start where the
> > login appears - reroute it to a pop-up page that ties to a database. Can you
> > detail that for us?
> >
>
> If dummies like you and your crew can "do the whole www.qasper.com thing",
> then I'm sure you can work out how to use ASP.NET
> <http://asp.net/>authentication with FlexWiki.
>
>
> > Re: 3. Can you detail the requirements so that I can outsource it,
> > please?
> >
>
> Perhaps a more valuable contribution to this open source project would be
> for you to detail some requirements that the community could review and
> provide feedback on. Once that is place you might actually find some
> volunteers to do the work.
>
>
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Craig
> > Andera
> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:07 AM
> > *To:* 'FlexWiki Users Mailing List'
> > *Subject:* Re: [Flexwiki-users] Shipping FlexWiki 2.0 - Proposed Feature
> > List
> >
> >
> >
> > Wow – that's great news! Sorry I missed/misread/forget your earlier
> > email – mea culpa there.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let me address your points individually so we can start to scope the
> > work.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) We already have a rudimentary "one-button" namespace creation
> > routine. It lives under the /admin pages. It's not awesome, but what
> > specifically about it would you like to see change?
> >
> > 2) Using a dropdown approach is going to be problematic. I
> > understand why you want this, but the stuff that deals with usernames is
> > totally decoupled from the FlexWiki bits (it's just straight .NET
> > authentication) to enable us to easily authenticate against whatever store
> > wiki administrators want to use – Windows authentication is just one
> > possible store. How important is this scenario to you?
> >
> > 3) We have a control panel in the form of the /admin pages. It
> > could use a lot of work, though. I think identifying the areas of the config
> > file that can't be modified via the controls already present and figuring
> > out which of them need knobs and buttons shouldn't be too bad.
> >
> > 4) Done.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding timeline, my thinking is that the above changes are likely to
> > wind up in a post-2.0 release. The multi-year gap between 1.8 and 2.0 is
> > something that shouldn't happen again – I'd rather see a new version every
> > few months. So I'd rather see 2.0 as changes to the core engine plus the
> > stuff that we already have in motion. We kick it out the door then start
> > shipping features – including improved administration – in a tighter loop.
> > My reasoning here is that we're moving forward with a bunch of stuff, and
> > the idea of improved administration – while good – is pretty late in the
> > game when we've already made our current users wait a really long time for a
> > new production-ready version. I'd really rather serve them than potential
> > new users, especially as we're not a commercial product and have no pressure
> > to grow our "market".
> >
> >
> >
> > But perhaps we can get a plan in place that addresses some or all of
> > your concerns consistent with a near-term timeline. Specifically, if you can
> > live without dropdown user selection, it might be reasonable to get the rest
> > done.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Qasper
> > sales
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:01 PM
> > *To:* 'FlexWiki Users Mailing List'
> > *Subject:* Re: [Flexwiki-users] Shipping FlexWiki 2.0 - Proposed Feature
> > List
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I did respond. I said that we don't have the needed talent to help
> > but that I would gladly outsource the completion of all these items if one
> > of you folks with depth and experience would kindly take a few hours and
> > document what the steps are.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll be happy to contribute.
> >
> >
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ] *On Behalf Of *Craig Andera
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:17 AM
> > *To:* 'FlexWiki Users Mailing List'
> > *Subject:* Re: [Flexwiki-users] Shipping FlexWiki 2.0 - Proposed Feature
> > List
> >
> > So, it would be great to do all the things you mention. None of them,
> > however, are present in FlexWiki 1.8. So we're not making it any more
> > difficult than it already is.
> >
> >
> >
> > You never responded to my earlier suggestion that your company donate
> > some of your developer's time to address some of these issues. Is that
> > something you're able to do? Given that you want to integrate FlexWiki into
> > your commercial product, then it doesn't seem like an unreasonable tradeoff
> > to me that some of your company's resources would go into making the changes
> > you suggest. Of course, I understand if that's not feasible for you, but
> > then I expect you'd understand if the volunteers here don't choose to
> > implement to your specifications.
> >
> >
> >
> > So while your comments are appreciated, my recommendation to the
> > community continues to be "release as outlined in my proposal".
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, "upload and go" functionality is already there. Create a virtual
> > directory, unzip the full web distribution, and you're off and running on
> > most systems. Database not required. Accessing the config file not required
> > for simple setups. Controlling read permissions is also handled.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Qasper
> > sales
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:20 PM
> > *To:* 'FlexWiki Users Mailing List'
> > *Subject:* Re: [Flexwiki-users] Shipping FlexWiki 2.0 - Proposed Feature
> > List
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure where our company's needs are met in the 2.0 release, but
> > please let me list the critical things we are after. I really commend you
> > folks on what you've done, but I suggest you sit back and look at the wiki
> > from a small/medium-size business user's viewpoint.
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope to convince you NOT to release RC1 until FlexWiki is made more
> > user-friendly. I'm sure the underpinnings and structure of FlexWiki are
> > great, but I'm imploring you to ensure that the average computer user can
> > easily install and use FlexWiki, without resorting to low-level editing of
> > config files, as well as some of these points... sorry for the rambling, but
> > I think you won't get any growth in this product until you mainstream it.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. First and foremost: end-user creation of namespaces - what we call
> > projects - through a control panel. I've mentioned this before. For
> > business, the success of a Wiki lies in its ability to provide groups of
> > pages that only a select group of people can view and, further, only a
> > subset of that group can have write privileges. I believe the latter is
> > handled, but I would like to get feedback on the former.
> >
> >
> >
> > A Wiki as an information source is great, but unless it provides a
> > practical solution to a real business need, its adoption will be limited.
> > There has to be a compelling reason for a business to go to the trouble of
> > implementing a Wiki. I'm fully aware that some businesses will implement
> > FlexWiki, but FlexWiki has potential in thousands of businesses.
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, I, as a FlexWiki user, should be able to start a new
> > project simply by clicking a button and naming the project - anything more
> > complicated just won't make it. Once the project is started and the home
> > page for that project is initialized and displayed, I can set who can use
> > the project.
> >
> >
> >
> > Requiring a user to actually edit any type of config file is far too
> > techy and simply not acceptable in today's software world. Users should be
> > able to click and go and all settings should be able to be done through a
> > control panel.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2. Setting the user authority. Any page that I want to designate as
> > customized for read/write privileges should allow me to access a central
> > page popup with a dropdown list of users where I can click the user I want
> > and select an authorization type from a pick list, so that I can just point
> > to a user, select an authority (read, write, etc.) and have that info
> > auto-inserted onto the wiki page.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nobody should be be expected to remember user names in a company of
> > dozens or hundreds of users..
> >
> >
> >
> > 3. Simple implementation. One of the things about .NET implementation is
> > its simplicity. The new version should not require me to access any config
> > file in order to specify settings or conditions. That's simply too complex
> > for any small/medium size business. I should be able to simply copy the
> > files to the server and start using the Wiki.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's really important that you take the time to implement a control
> > panel. I urge you not to even consider release until a full control panel is
> > there. Several similar wikis recognized this and have implemented excellent
> > control panels.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think it's Perspective that has really stretched out and produced a
> > great control panel. Have a look at it.
> >
> >
> >
> > 4. The new version should offer non-databased functionality, like 1.8has. I
> > don't know if it does, but, again, the idea is to make it easy for a
> > business to just upload the Wiki files and start using it.
> >
> >
> >
> > We are www.Qasper.com <http://www.qasper.com/> and we target small and
> > medium-sized businesses. Many of them would love an easily-implemented Wiki.
> > Initially we started working with FlexWiki and implemented it in several
> > client sites, but recently we've moved to another product because FlexWiki
> > is too hard for an end-user to user and it doesn't provide project
> > functionality. We would dearly love to return to FlexWiki.
> >
> >
> >
> > I previously mentioned the following quote:
> >
> >
> >
> > "We use TWiki internally to manage documentation and project planning
> > for our products. said Eric Baldeschwieler, Director of Software Development
> > of Yahoo! Our development team includes hundreds of people in various
> > locations all over the world, so web collaboration is VERY important to us.
> > TWiki has changed the way we run meetings, plan releases, document our
> > product and generally communicate with each other. We're great fans of your
> > work!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Note the comment on "manage documentation" and "project planning". These
> > and collaboration are three of the biggest needs of business today.
> >
> >
> >
> > I urge you not to release FlexWiki until these issues have been strongly
> > considered and debated. If you release 2.0 without ease of use, simple
> > implementation of project functionality, and easy implementation of user
> > restrictions, you will get a reponse of "more of the same" from many of the
> > potential users. You may appeal to developers and programmers, but it just
> > won't make it into the mainstream.
> >
> >
> >
> > You've put a lot of effort into building a solid V2.0. Please, take the
> > time to build a strong end-user interface.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Fred Dalgleish
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ] *On Behalf Of *Craig Andera
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2007 6:19 AM
> > *To:* 'FlexWiki Users Mailing List'
> > *Subject:* [Flexwiki-users] Shipping FlexWiki 2.0 - Proposed Feature
> > List
> >
> > Now that performance looks like it's more or less where it needs to be,
> > I want to get consensus on what constitutes FlexWiki 2.0 RC1. Here's the
> > list of things I can think of that need to be fixed or added:
> >
> >
> >
> > · Address outstanding SQL Server bug reported here.
> >
> > · Address outstanding search page bug reported here.
> >
> > · Complete new stylesheet work.
> >
> > · Complete or partially complete XHTML compliance work.
> >
> > · Add administration page for working with new cache (clear
> > items, view cache, etc.)
> >
> > · Add administration page for working with new configuration
> > file format (reload config, edit config file online, etc.)
> >
> >
> >
> > That's a fairly short list, which is very good! Can anyone think of
> > anything else that I'm forgetting that should go into 2.0 RC1?
> >
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> >
> >
>
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