It's a "must" in a hyperbolic sense - Dirk is just excited about a good
presentation. I think any idea that encourages attempts at discovering
perspectives different from those in fashion is important - this
presentation falls into that category.

Cheers,
Andrey

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:18 AM, John Zabroski <[email protected]>wrote:

> Explain to me why that document is a "must", because I don't get it.
> Somebody has to put their foot down, put some weight in his or her butt,
> push back, and say, "BULLSHIT.  I don't get it."
>
> Looking at Richard Hamming's three questions:
>
> 1. I am simultaneously interested in open, reflective, dynamically
> distributed and dynamically federated systems
> 2. I am a practitioner, so the most important problem is squishing out
> applications for my company
> 3. This is a hobby, and for a hobby I want to build something that
> radically changes the future -- anything less is a complete waste.  I
> consider all databases and graphical user interfaces to be examples of 1,
> and so my interests map out all over the place.  One big problem in a field
> this large would be dangerously myopic.
>
> Also, Richard Hamming or Todd Proebstring isn't going to hire me, so these
> questions are pretty irrelevant to this discussion (for me).
>
> What I possess is an extremely closed-minded and visionary type of
> personality, and a desire to settle for nothing less.  The last thing I am
> going to do is appeal to Todd for what I should be doing or asking Alan Kay
> or Ian Piumarta about.  I should just go directly to Alan or Ian and push
> back on their ideas.  A much better article than Todd's powerpoint would be
> Accept Defeat: The Neuroscience of Screwing Up
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_accept_defeat/all/1
>
> To summarize what I don't find Todd's presentation:
> 1. Everything he said of value is obvious to anyone with any perspective at
> all
> 2. It's all been said before
> 3. "Flight Data Recorders" is a fancy way to say all software is a living
> system, and computer scientists suck at studying living systems, and
> programmers lack sufficient tools for repairing living systems
> 4. "Flight Data Recorders" biggest disadvantage is not mentioned: dealing
> with purity
> 5. "Checkpoints/Undo": the biggest flaw in this idea is always the same,
> and is the same as my criticism of Warth and Kay's Worlds idea: you are
> *still* moving the program counter, and so state *is* changing.  Any attempt
> to hide the fact the program counter seems like an abstraction failure to
> me.
> 6. "Checkpoints/Undo" does not mention attribute grammars as a current
> solution.
> 7. "Checkpoints/Undo": Completely goes against the earlier point in the
> powerpoint that smart algorithms will do more for performance than compiler
> optimization
> 8. Compiler optimization vs. algorithms in general is a false dichotomy in
> a maximally open, maximally reflective system, and I'll claim anyone who
> thinks this dichotomy is real will not push themselves into an *extreme
> position* necessary to radically innovate
> 9. "Disruptive Database Integration" appears to be LINQ, which relies on
> monad comprehensions and does not facilitate metalogic substitution.  LINQ
> hits a complexity wall early, and currently Visual Studio and .NET Assembly
> compilation introduces real abstraction barriers to how people think about
> database integration.  Typed data access has never been a real problem, it
> is a red herring only MS Research would latch onto, because it looks cool
> and sells VS licenses.
> 10. "Disruptive Parsing": Working with Concrete Syntax Trees only makes
> sense if you need to work with concrete syntax trees; advocating unnecessary
> abstraction weight seems silly
> 11. "Disruptive XML Manipulation": Misses the point that hardwiring data
> interchange to XML means weak service encapsulation and disallows for
> extreme late-binding between the client and server; this raises questions
> about versionability, immediately
> 12. "Disruptive constraint solvers": In my experience, the biggest problem
> with constraint solvers today -- in terms of putting them into a language --
> is that they are mostly designed by people who don't have professional
> training and experience designing languages
> 13. "Distributed programming": Performance matters.  The speed of light is
> your bottleneck.  Stuff like fault tolerance isn't that complicated and the
> bigger issue will be what to distribute and how to distribute it, e.g. fast
> algorithms for dynamic reconfiguration that don't have long system pause
> characteristics
>
> I'm going to conclude by saying the three stumbling blocks are size,
> complexity and trustworthiness.  Paying attention to all of Todd P's "big
> problems" just puts your focus on solutions-oriented thinking, rather than
> fundamentals-oriented thinking.
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Dirk Muysers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>  Everybody in this discussion should have read the following:
>>
>>
>> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearch.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fum%2Fpeople%2Ftoddpro%2Fpapers%2Fdisruptive.ppt&rct=j&q=proebsting+%2Bdisruptive&ei=TUSMS8PRKYS80gSKpMjRCw&usg=AFQjCNGlGioXg3dL2G5rekpa-U8dKuZAtg
>>
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