Hi Alan, I'd like to know what do you think about the spreadsheets like "Spreadsheet 2000".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spreadsheet_2000 http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.13/13.04/Spreadsheet2000/index.html I much like the idea of "polymorphic" operators, and the way to create (visually) formulas. Cheers, -- Diego 2011/4/8 Alan Kay <[email protected]> > Hi John > > I don't think I would call the Analyst "visual programming". (And you are > right that to this day most people can't see what a spreadsheet really is > (or is "trying to be"). I think the real interest of the Analyst was that it > was early and good thinking about what easily programmable "visual cells" > could really do for the end-user. > > Another early (but later) use of this idea was the original AION > development system -- where the cells were embeddable in documents (like > company reports) and the "formula" could be full-fledged AI goals (AION was > at that time a very powerful backtracking expert system rules engine). I > really liked this approach, and I got to see it powerfully used in the late > 80s by Andersen Consulting (now Accenture) when I was on their technical > advisory board. > > Cheers, > > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* John Zabroski <[email protected]> > *To:* Fundamentals of New Computing <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wed, April 6, 2011 10:49:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI > staff > > I've many books on visual programming. I'll make a list soon of what I > have. > > I am mostly blown away by how difficult it is to ramp-up knowledge > about this domain. Even typing in the phrase into Amazon requires > sifting through pages of search results and wondering what applies. > > As for spreadsheets like the Analyst being characterized as "visual > programming" - my only source of info is the Scientific American > article on VPRI's website. I am mostly stunned at how commmercial > datagrid vendors completely overlook the need to specify a > fine-grained object model. Instead, it is a data-bound grid object > that does not structurally isolate common variabilities (e.g. from, > groupby, where and select; infinite drilldown and drill-across with > polymorphic Drill override for separating reduction and control scope; > cellular constraints for pushing and pulling values). These datagrids > also force the data-bound object to shares its persistence > information. Likewise, commercial spreadsheet APIs like Actuate > e.SpreadsheetDesigner are an abomination. > > I showed Skeleton to a datagrid product manager at Xceed and his > reaction suggested innocence and not-knowing any "competition" outside > his Windows WinForms/WPF/Silverlight/ASP.NET traget market. I've > possessed the same innocence, so I was happy to constructively > criticize his Silverlight datagrid. > > Duncan, > > No worries. Stay curious and share. > > > > On 3/31/11, David Corking <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011, John Zabroski wrote: > >> I am trying to round up all visual programming kit research written by > you > > > > Does your definition of visual programming include graphical > > programming (by children)? > > > > If so, I imagine you might want to include: > > Self > > Tweak > > TileScript > > (All had participation of current or former VPRI/Squeak Central staff > > or contractors. I don't know who were staff and who were contractors.) > > > > Hope that helps. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > fonc mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > > > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing list > [email protected] > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing list > [email protected] > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > >
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