On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:47 am, Andreas L Delmelle wrote:
> On Nov 4, 2005, at 17:05, Luca Furini wrote:
>
> Hi Manuel / Luca,
>
> > Manuel Mall wrote:
> >> Here are some of the combinations I have identified:
>
> <snip />
>
> >> 6. Breaking / elastic / non removable - eg. U+3000 Ideographic
> >> space => Must handle border/padding
> >>    => Must handle text-align
> >>    Question: XSL-FO does not define U+3000 as removable white space
> >> but would under common CJK typesetting conventions this be removed
> >> at a line break?
>
> I think so. That's precisely what the definition for the "auto" value
> of suppress-at-line-break warns about. Does this mean that the use of
> a fo:character is mandated if the user wants it removed? Yes, IMO.
>
> Unless the editors can be persuaded to make U+3000 an exception to
> the default "retain", like common spaces (U+0020), compliance means
> treating this character maybe a bit counter-intuitively.
>
> >> 7. Breaking / elastic / removable - eg. U+0020 Space
> >>    => Can occur in runs which must be wholly removed
> >>    => Must handle border/padding
> >>    => Must handle text-align
> >> Any combinations I have missed, e.g. is there a "break / non
> >> elastic / remove at break" case?
> >
> > Maybe the fixed width spaces?
>
> More generally: any fixed-width character, added through a
> fo:character, implying a feasible/favorable break before or after,
> and having suppress-at-line-break="suppress".
>
> I could put:
>
> <fo:character character="a" suppress-at-line-break="suppress" />
>
> in a document, surrounded by non-collapsible whitespace, and the
> formatter may decide to break before/after and drop the 'a'.
>
> Fixed-width spaces could be viewed as a subset. If they aren't added
> via a fo:character, they would belong to category 'break - non-
> elastic - non-removable'. (speaking strictly XSL-FO)
>
Andreas, I tend to disagree with the basic sentiment express here. If we 
accept Simon's notion that white space handling in XSL-FO is about 
dealing with spaces and linefeeds introduced by editors or humans for 
XML readability purposes then dealing with typographic conventions of 
particular scripts has nothing to do with the rules of white space 
handling. XSL-FO in quite a few places mentions user agent flexibility 
when it comes to dealing with script / language / country specific 
items. If we can, as Joerg suggests, replace a base letter followed by 
a combining diacritical mark with a matching combined glyph, why can't 
we replace an ideographic space followed by a line break with simply 
the line break? The point being I am not suggesting to remove the 
ideographic space under the XSL-FO white space rules but under 'script 
specific typographic conventions'. And I believe there is nothing in 
the spec which prohibits this - quite the opposite actually - the spec 
IMO encourages 'intelligent' handling of 'local customs'. Of course I 
don't know what the CJK typographic conventions are so this is all a 
bit hypothetical.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andreas
Regards

Manuel

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