On 11.09.2008 12:47:39 Maximilian Gaerber wrote: > Hi Jeremias, > > thanks for the fast response (wow, this seems to be > quick-response-list...). > > Ok, so far this my conclusion: > > - FOP supports proprietary (and standards based: icc-rgb()) support for > defining CMYK colors. Do both work for PDF output?
Yes, from XSL-FO anyway. > - Batik only understands icc-color() - but can it handle it correctly? Not sure. I've done a quick test. The ICC color got interpreted but the PDF transcoder generated RGB for it. Either Batik itself or the PDF transcoder doesn't do it right. Needs some debugging. > - If I'd post-process my SVGs and convert all color definitions to > icc-color() it should (?) work Apparently not, see above. > Concerning your 4 points towards tool support etc: > > I'm dealing with some graphic professionals and when I ask something > like "What is this icc profile thing" they only say it is not important > because most print shops will ignore it anyway... So in the end, the > standards based approach and defining profiles will ultimately fail to > find its way on the printed paper... See? Exactly what I wrote. ;-) It's "not important" because noone really knows how to deal with it. Usually, those guys prefer to fall back to uncalibrated CMYK because there they know how to work the machines. But that doesn't guarantee they get the colors right. Anyway, I've never had a real-life project where I would have had the time to track down a specialist who knows how this works on the printing side. > I guess if there was a "general purpose" color profile that one could > use (if no "specific" profile was available) - this might help. sRGB is general purpose. :-) Otherwise, with calibrated colors I assume there's no such thing as "general purpose". It depends on the machine, the ink, the paper, everything. Anyway, I can't say I'm a color specialist. I'm learning all the time. > Regards, > > Max > > > > Jeremias Maerki schrieb: > > Both SVG and XSL-FO are using sRGB color space by default. The color > > industry came up with the ICC standard for non-sRGB colors which is what > > the SVG and XSL working groups chose for non-RGB colors. Unfortunately, > > many people don't seem to understand how this works and many creation > > tools don't support it. That's why people keep falling back to > > (uncalibrated) CMYK. FOP's basic support for CMYK is basically a > > concession to that. It's a proprietary extension, too. AFAIK, Batik > > hasn't been confronted with this too much until now. It doesn't support > > uncalibrated CMYK at the moment, so at the moment you can't use the same > > approach in both XSL-FO and SVG. > > > > Best practice as recommended by the editors of the SVG and FO standards > > is: > > - Use ICC color profiles > > - in FO, use rgb-icc(num, num, num, <name>, num*) > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xsl11/#expr-color-functions > > - in SVG, use <color> icc-color(<name>, num*) > > http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#SpecifyingPaint > > > > But yeah, you probably don't have tool support for that. And you can't > > use EPS in PDF. Leaves you rasterizing SVG to CMYK bitmaps at the moment. > > :-( > > > > Of course, proprietary support for uncalibrated CMYK colors could be > > added to Batik and FOP's PDF transcoder in the same way it was added to > > XSL-FO support. But IMO it's the wrong way. > > > > Essentially, we need four things to make this work as it is supposed to: > > 1. SVG and XSL working groups should sit together and harmonize their > > color efforts. I've mentioned that to them before so they are aware. > > 2. People (software developers, content creators, print shop employees > > etc.) should learn about ICC colors. > > 3. SVG creation tools need to start supporting ICC colors. > > 4. FOP and Batik need to be reviewed if they handle the ICC colors > > correctly in every case. The functionality should be there but due to > > the lack of actual real-life projects this is probably not well tested. > > > > I'm available to help with improving color support in Batik and FOP. I > > think it's an important aspect of the two applications but there's still > > some way to go. > > > > On 11.09.2008 11:30:25 Maximilian Gaerber wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I read some posts about cmyk integration in FOP and so far it seems to > >> work for my purposes when using it directly in XSL-FO. The bigger issue > >> is with SVG: > >> > >> - Illustrator or Inkscape will only export SVG with RGB color codes (HEX). > >> - I could post-process the SVG graphics through xsl and add the cmyk > >> information > >> - But right now it seems the PDF output of FOP is not able to handle > >> these colors > >> > >> What would be "best practices" at the moment with SVG, FOP and cmyk > >> colors? Don't use? What else? Go back to EPS or rasterize the SVGs? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Maximilian Gärber > >> > > <snip/> > > > > > > Jeremias Maerki > > Jeremias Maerki --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
