On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:11:02 -0400 >>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Hipp wrote:
Richard> Offering the option to use 3rd-party merging aids is on the Richard> to-do list. Nice. Richard> (But my time is limited because I am currently frying much Richard> bigger fish: Big fish, indeed. Richard> Was there anything else in that article that was noteworthy? - No versioning of Fossil itself It would be nice to provide 'regular' versions for releases. - interoperability with other SCMs, migrating & exchanging I'm aware that there is converter for CVS. Any support for other SCMs. How can one exchange 'artifacts' with other systems or is Fossil 'isolated universe' ? - ability to contribute patches via email, e.g. like bzr's 'send' How can occasional user contribute to the Fossil-based project? Just by sending diff? - Attempts of including rich text editors have failed so far, non programmers potentially reluctant to learn HTML just to format This one really sucks...I'm doing thorough evaluation of Fossil and it looks 'almost perfect', except of this one... :-( Richard> What else is important to the broader user community? The explanation on the wiki says: "Some commentators feel that the use of HTML is a mistake and that fossil should use the markup language of the fill-in-your-favorite wiki engine instead. That approach was considered but was rejected for the following reasons:" 1. There is no standard wiki markup language. Every wiki engine does it a little differently. Personally, I'd prefer Markdown as very readable markup which plays very nicely with HTML, but I'd agree with Jeremy who wrote (sometime ago): "There are 3 major wiki syntaxes, Markdown, Textile and Creole. You will likely run into them in other areas of your programming life as well. We are simply asking that a set standard be adopted so you don't have to deal with everyone has their own idea. We are also asking that it be adopted wholly." So, having complete standard markup is better than the present one since 'standard' markup is supported in different tools like editors, converters etc. 2. The wiki markup used by fossil, though limited, is common to most other wiki engines, is intuitive, and is sufficient for 90% of all formatting tasks. Dear Richard, I agree that markup used by fossil is intuitive, but it is hard to accept the statement "is sufficient for 90% of all formatting tasks." since it comes from you who is known as Sqlite author and the web site (http://www.sqlite.org/testing.html) says: "The TH3 test harness is a set of proprietary tests, written in C that provide 100% branch test coverage (and 100% MC/DC test coverage) to the core SQLite library.", so, in my eyes, you're not 90% man. Here - in case to use wiki as complete documentation tool - it is not enough to cover 90%, but one needs full coverage which could be easily achieved by using some complete wiki markup (Markdown, Textile and Creole were mentioned in the thread) 3. Where the fossil wiki markup language is insufficient, HTML is used. HTML is a standard language familiar to most programmers so there is nothing new to learn. And, though cumbersome, the HTML does not need to be used very often so is not a burden. Jeremy wrote today: "I'm actually going to be removing it from the tab group and doing without a wiki for a while. I did have the wiki enabled for a while and some contributors just about fell over when they had to type in HTML and they simply didn't, so it is defunct anyway." :-( "I'm a strong supporter for any standard wiki format. Sure, not everyone is going to agree on the standard but that's a choice that has to be made. Not everyone agrees with what exists now. The point is, without a more usable wiki, it's not usable as a wiki to me. I gave up." This is a great pity that such wonderful project as Fossil, which brings so many excellent ideas into life and it's so capable, performs nicely, is spoiled by under-the-standard wiki implementation. It is definitely the weakest link in the Fossil's chain and it disappointing that although SCM is example of great implementation, the whole products will suffer due to 90%-wiki markup. :-(( My offer is still valid that I'm going to rewrite the whole wiki docs in Markdown in case you plan to support it. ;) Thank you for the great product Richard, but please re-consider to make it (almost) perfect! Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 ----------------------------------------------------------------
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