So my user page would be at Male:Mono or Man:Mono? On Sunday, February 13, 2011, Lodewijk <[email protected]> wrote: > To be absolutely clear: I am not against the feature, I am just > against applying it to every user that indicated his/her gender > without asking. Up to now (afaik) the male/female setting was only > used for communication *to* the user: that is private. To turn on > suddenly a feature that shows this also explicitely to the outside > world is a whole different thing. > > Also, in some languages the difference between male/female maybe exist > if you search hard (like Dutch), but are not commonly used (like > gebruikster - I never ever heard that being used in common > conversations). I am just saying that we should not force these > changes on communities and groups of people without consulting them. > They know their language best and how common the term is, how it comes > across culturally etc. The fact that a term exists doesnt mean we > should use it. I also agree with Austin that it should be even better > to determine it as well on a personal level. But I would make it a two > level choice: first the community should decide to turn it on in the > first place in their wiki, then the user should decide to turn it on > in their individual case. > > Lodewijk > > 2011/2/13 Austin Hair <[email protected]>: >> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Béria Lima <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Lodewijk: Gerard, this wouldn't really help to attract more new female >>>> users. >>> >>> Could you please tell me why? I can set my preferences to "male" or >>> "female", but i can't see my "user" page with my real gender. And yes, that >>> is a matter of choice, you can say that not every girl will like to be >>> called "usuária" or Gebruikster" or "Benutzerin", but if you guys change the >>> MediaWiki they can have the power to chose. And right now we don't have >>> that, do we? >> >> I won't speak for Lodewijk, but what I understood him to mean was that >> you wouldn't know about the feature until you've already created an >> account, so it doesn't *attract* them. One might argue that it helps >> *keep* them, but that's a different matter. >> >>>> Austin: Like with many European languages, the masculine is the default >>>> and feminine suffixes are added only for emphasis, which is pretty >>>> anti-feminist, and it doesn't help that the feminine forms are related to >>>> or >>>> even the same as the diminutive forms. >>> >>> Anti feminist and partenalist is see several guys deciding what we want or >>> don't want in our user pages. We are not here to change French or German >>> grammar, if the feminine is made by adding a sufix, is a local language >>> problem (btw, in portuguese, the male version is also a "sufix", so is >>> "usuário / usuária). Again here we are not change grammar, we are only >>> talking about give girls the "possibility" to be called by the right form in >>> the MediaWiki system. >>> >>>> Austin: It seems more like an individual preference to me. >>> >>> It is a individual preference. But a preference you people don't seems to >>> want us to decide if we want of not. >> >> I think you misunderstand me. I think it *should* be an individual >> preference. What I argue against is making that decision for everyone. >> Lodewijk is worried about making that decision for communities whose >> linguistic and/or cultural norms might be different; I take it one >> step further and say the individual should be able to do that, if it's >> to be done at all. >> >> (And as long as we're picking nits: I don't speak Portuguese, but I do >> speak Spanish, so I'm guessing that one male user and three female >> users are still collectively usuários?) >> >> But back to your first point: >> >>>> Lodewijk and Thomas: so why change it to something causing problems all >>>> over the place, not only technical ones? >>> >>> Why? Maybe to call a girl by her real gender. The problems you both listed >>> are not real problems. The male version is only used if you don't know the >>> gender. But all wikimedia know that Sue (for example) is a girl, so why we >>> still need to see a male word in her "user" page? >> >> This may be important to you in your language, but it may not be >> important to others (in fact, they might resent being explicitly >> labeled as a woman), if it's even a distinction made in that language. >> >> Austin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >
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