On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 15:58, Lodewijk <[email protected]> wrote: > It would be great if we can have this discussion without making sarcastic > remarks like this - I know it is a sensitive topic, but I also know that > we're in a suboptimal situation here right now. In the past discussions we > have talked about how we should try to engage volunteers and let them do > what they are best at - I still stand behind that. That however also means > that we should recognize that the chapters model will not work for every > single person or group of persons. > > This does not necessarily have to correlate with a 'shift of power' or > disengaging chapters - it *should* be about engaging more volunteers, and > allowing them to do great work with the best tools available. So let us > focus on that. > > I think there are two types of organizations within the Wikimedia movement > relevant here besides the chapters and the WMF: > 1) Organizations that will ideally grow into a chapter some day > 2) Organizations that explicitely do not want to or cannot grow into a > chapter > > The group 1) will probably mainly be the case because of either legal > reasons or because there is not enough critical mass yet. I don't think > anyone disagrees we should give them the space they need. This includes for > example Wikimedia Croatia, Kazachstan and Georgia. > > The group 2) will in my expectation consist of groups that are indeed more > aligned along cultural ideas. To mind come Amical (as discussed) and > Esperantists. Now this is where things apparently become complicated, > because somehow things can get conflicting when they start to compete with > chapters. There are a few things relevant here in the recognition process > by X-committee: > * What will be the rights will determine to large extent how high the > threshold will be > * If there is a geographical component (explicit or not) there should, > imho, be a consultation with the relevant other organizations overlapping > with that component. I don't know if it is realistic to go as far as a > veto, but it should definitely be a very serious part of the process. This > should probably be reciprocal - if a chapter is to be recognized other > groups in that area should be consulted, too. > * We should have clear to what extent trademarks and fundraising rights go > - both for chapters and non-chapter organizations. > * We have to remain very careful about political statements. I am > personally a bit hesistant with recognizing any organization which is > politically oriented. Hence, this analysis should also be part of the > recognition process of any movement organization. To give an entirely > obvious example: I would not feel comfortable if any organization would be > founded based on ethnically oriented principles, or would be discriminating > in its membership based on principles that would be considered illegal in > most countries (even if it is not illegal in that specific country). > Another obvious example: I would feel extremely uncomfortable if any of > these organizations would only allow men to vote in their assemblies or if > there are religious requirements. > * In general I would like to find a way to ensure that relations are good > between the organization and the communities and relevant other > organizations. I doubt we ever can formalize that into a demand, but all > efforts should go into this of course. > > Probably there are some more criteria which are currently already checked > upon (although not formally in a checklist) by the recognition of chapters > that should be part of this. I think it would be helpful if chapcom can > tackle that issue in it's berlin meeting. > > Anyway, just some thoughts. As a final remark, I sincerely hope that we > will not fall in the trap of building policies around a single case - but > rather focus on the big picture and then afterwards test that picture on > the single scenario. Amical is a complicated case, and it would be very > easy to loose ourselves in who's at fault, the details and what solutions > do not work in their case.
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