Hi Ziko, if you're saying that the proposals should not get 'extra points' because they happen to come from a working group that did not function optimally (far from that - although it was definitely not useless either) I totally agree. Just review the proposals on their own merits, and consider its impact rather than its source.
Best, Lodewijk No dia 14 de Fevereiro de 2012 14:23, Ziko van Dijk <[email protected]>escreveu: > Lodewijk, > I remember the session in Haifa very well. The audience found it > extremely difficult to understand the texts and do anything with them > - think of the awkward silence when the group asked for feedback. It > must be possible to criticize the texts in spite of their alleged > "roughness". And indeed, after Haifa we never neard from the group > again, its members also did not take part in the discussion on the > concerning meta talk page. Now, suddenly, the content of what you call > "very rough and a first phase" is put on the table again. So I take it > seriously and say what according to me must be said. > > Kind regards > Ziko > > > > 2012/2/14 Lodewijk <[email protected]>: > > Hi Ziko, > > > > what was presented at Wikimania, was only supposed to be very rough and a > > first phase. The idea was to then continue the process further - somehow > > that never really happened. I agree there were and are quite some flaws > in > > the design (for which I don't necessarily see an immediate solution). > When > > wordings are the problem, we can probably fix that together - it is more > > important that we agree on the actual content - and that seems hard > enough > > as it is. I'm afraid that a new group at this point would bump into the > > same problems as the old one did, and has to go through that whole > learning > > process all over again. > > > > So yes, lets be critical, and constructive as much as possible. > > > > best, > > Lodewijk > > > > No dia 14 de Fevereiro de 2012 00:57, Ziko van Dijk > > <[email protected]>escreveu: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I am afraid that the letter takes over the "results" of the MR group > >> that where presented at Wikimania 2011. There nobody, as far as I > >> remember, who was enthousiast about those results. My board colleague > >> Marco, for example, was stunned that the MR group thought that the > >> International Olympic Committee were a great model for us because of > >> its transparency (!). > >> > >> The wordings were unsatisfying, and we couldn't make up much of the > >> proposed "charter" text. On the talk page I later commented that the > >> WMF should call for a new group. I would like to interpret this new > >> letter as an invitation to think about entities and its names again. > >> > >> It would be nice if the expressions could be more self-explanitory, > >> and if we had more information about what these new entities will be > >> for. What problems will be solved by establishing them, what problems > >> could emerge etc. > >> > >> Kind regards > >> Ziko > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland > >> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter > >> http://wmnederland.nl/ > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> foundation-l mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > foundation-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland > dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter > http://wmnederland.nl/ > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
