Prease DON'T add garbage collector. IMO it isn't a good idea. I had very bad experiences with it. Unless somebody found a new magic algorithm in the last decade...
El Wed, 16 Oct 2024 04:49:44 -0700 Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal <fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> escribió: > On Oct 16, 2024 at 4:44:35 PM, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal < > fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > > > > > On 10/16/24 6:00 AM, Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal wrote: > > > > FPC is not keeping up with trends in the industry which new > > programmings want despite all the older programmers who are settled > > in their ways. Even if there is a market for Lazarus type apps > > people in 2024 don’t want to use a massive legacy IDE and prefer > > better tools like VSCode. > > > > What trends, exactly? Can you be more specific? > > > > The biggest thing I see stopping new programmers from using Pascal is > some form of automatic memory management. ARC, garbage collector, > smart pointers or even RAII. That right there is a killer if you ask > me. Even people who want to high performance will use C++ instead of > Pascal for this reason. > > > If you want to use FPC these days what does a new user do? If they > follow > > tutorials on YouTube they expect to have some VSCode package > > installed easily and start working that way. FPC of course has no > > official support for this and it’s hard to get my language server > > and it’s buggy due to CodeTools (a user created project with no > > official backing AFAIK). > > > > If you think that way, then maybe create your own VSCode plugin for > > Pascal. What "official backing" do you expect, exactly? There's no > > such thing as "official backing". There are things that users care > > enough about to donate their development time and work on them. > > That's how open source works. How is it CodeTools' fault that your > > language server is buggy? Did you submit merge requests with fixes? > > Did they get rejected? > > It’s no one's fault there’s just not enough people working on these > things. I tried to make a language server and a plugin even for > VSCode but it’s hard to use and not clear for new users. Sorry I > dont’ have the time either. > > As for the language I think for GUI apps programmers don’t need or > want a > > manual memory managed language like Pascal and would prefer > > something like C#. In general the ease of programming is not there > > in Pascal compared to other languages and the community is > > extremely resistant to change. > > > > Do you have a garbage collection proposal for Pascal? > > > > Free Pascal has a JVM target that supports garbage collection and > > pretty much nobody is using it. Why do you think that is? > > > I don’t even know how to use that! I assume it’s not something you > just enable on any program. I’ve never seen programs adopt it. > > I don’t think it’s hard to see Pascal are simply going to get old and > die > > at this point. I even had an old time programmer contact me and say > > how much more productive he is with Swift when writing macOS apps > > now so quit using FPC. There’s lots of reason for this so FPC would > > need to be actively learning and making changes to keep pace. > > > > One developer moving from one language to another is pretty > > anecdotal. IMO, Swift is a pretty decent language, but there's > > nothing entirely original or amazing for Object Pascal developers. > > It's an improvement over C, C++, Objective C, etc, but not so much > > over Object Pascal. What is it about Swift, that makes your old > > time friend more productive when writing macOS apps? Is it really > > the language, or is it the Apple IDE and framework? If it's the > > latter, there's a cost to that, your app isn't multiplatform, you > > need to rewrite it, if you want to support other platforms. Apple > > has no incentive in making that process easy. > > Swift has a ton of features that Pascal doesn’t have which the kind > UI apps which Apple supports. We could spend hours going over > everything but I’m just saying a new programmer would look at Swift > vs Pascal and choose Swift. > > The bigger problem is of course support for Apples frameworks. Once > the platform chooses a language like Apple does it kind of kills > everything else. Even popular languages like C# don’t compete so I > don’t expect Pascal to come out ahead her either. > > > > Too many details to go into but there’s myriad problems that would > > need to be addressed. > > > > Unlike others, your post is so negative and so vague and light in > > details it almost looks like trolling. > > > Sorry to be negative I’m just sounding the alarm. I’ve watched the > community dwindle over the years and people move on and new > programmers adopt new languages. It’s clearly going in the wrong > direction as noted by the original post. Am I wrong? > > Best regards, > > > > Nikolay > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > From: Rainer Stratmann via fpc-pascal > > <fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> Date: Oct 16, 2024 at 6:07:58 AM > > Subject: [fpc-pascal] What to do to get new users > > To: FPC mailing list <fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> > > Cc: Rainer Stratmann <rainerstratm...@t-online.de> > > > > > > At the Lazarus Congress in Cologne in October 2024, it ended up > > being very interesting. An important question came up. > > > > Why are no new users coming to Lazarus/Freepascal? > > Why do we find it so difficult? > > How can we get new, younger users to come to us? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > fpc-pascal maillist - > > fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.orghttps://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > > > > _______________________________________________ > > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > > _______________________________________________ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
