Dear Framers, Sorry, the cartoon image (sumo wrestlers Framaker vs. Interleaf) that I had attached, did not go through. I will be happy to email it you if you send me an email.
Thanks Tarlochan S. Nahal [email protected] On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 2:19 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Framers mailing list submissions to [email protected] > To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You > can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] When replying, please edit your > Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers > digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 (Tarlochan S. Nahal) > 2. Re: cartoon (Craig Ede) > 3. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Robert Lauriston) > 4. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 ([email protected]) > 5. Re: Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 (Peter Gold) > 6. Please change subject line for digest posts and trim them > (Carol J. Elkins) > 7. FrameMaker User Groups WAS: Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue > 8 (Craig Ede) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:32:49 -0700 > From: "Tarlochan S. Nahal" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > Message-ID: > <CAPEhaq6651ABsd2G6SKW1zihFUX= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > My nostalgia goes further back! > > As many of you might know there was another heavy-weight technical > publishing tool called Interleaf. I really liked it and had a much better > graphic tool when FrameMaker was not even able to create a "dotted line," > but it practically disappeared by the mid-1990s. There might still be some > licenses floating around, especially with some defense contractors. > > FrameMaker was coming strong in the early 1990s and Interleaf was losing > steam fairly rapidly. Why? Well, Interleaf started to dilly-dally on > customer service and won't pick phone calls if anyone had any problems with > installation or usage. It was a great software, but it failed to keep up > with customer demands. Sometimes I feel the same way about FrameMaker > today. Why doesn't the installation link always work? Why do you have to > spend hours on the phone with customer service to get it going? Why don't > they have user group meetings in the local high tech companies once in a > month as they did in the 1990s? It was great way to get real customer > feedback from people who are the actual users and front-line warriors. They > almost mishandled DITA and abdicated their responsibility to XML DITA, etc. > As a result, Adobe lost a significant market share to other vendors. In > spite of all that I have been a loyal user of FrameMaker for decades. > > Anyway, I share with you a cartoon in the form of two sumo wrestlers that > I asked a friend of mine Bill Bergman to make for me in 1992. Please enjoy. > > > Regards, > > Tarlochan Nahal > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:19 PM <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Send Framers mailing list submissions to [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You > > can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] When replying, please edit your > > Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers > > digest..." > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight) > > 2. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold) > > 3. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight) > > 4. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:33:46 -0400 > > From: Jerilynne Knight <[email protected]> > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > Message-ID: > > <CA+h60BiK0c93dqh5AFKytW0b_hfy_J= > > [email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Oh wowser Mark...I forgot about the Gem environment! And I remember that > > DOS-based machine...had one of them! > > > > J > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:42 PM Mark Soiseth <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It > > > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned > how > > > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based > > machines > > > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:01:22 -0500 > > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > Message-ID: > > <CAGoR+AjTF1O3Q198gSbAaArp7149imHuriuLp6SKZNPjw= > > [email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of us > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 1:41 PM Mark Soiseth <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It > > > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned > how > > > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based > > machines > > > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. > > > > > > But, yes, Corel did not do it justice. > > > > > > On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 05:05, Jerilynne Knight < > > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Bjorn...I didn't follow Ventura that far into present time, > > although I > > > > loved it when I learned it a Xerox. Once Corel took it over, I > though I > > > was > > > > the only one who was both disappointed and disgusted with the poor > job > > > they > > > > were doing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Studio Smalbro <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I followed Ventura all the way from the early versions on floppy > > disks > > > > > to the latest Corel Version 10. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > Archives located at > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > Archives located at > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:42 -0400 > > From: Jerilynne Knight <[email protected]> > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > Message-ID: > > <CA+h60BhfQnHTJ8HASmtoEUjwzdpW=LEe6aQB6J= > > [email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of > us > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:27:50 -0500 > > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > Message-ID: > > <CAGoR+Ag5ebCw=SJ=hbhUEfy6s+yY=iOscz= > > [email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Dang autocorrect. Should have been "first-hand" not "first-have." > > > > Ok, I won't start your feet moving down that path. ;) > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 9:13 PM Jerilynne Knight < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many > of > > us > > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > Archives located at > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > This daily digest is from the Framers mailing list > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > Archives located at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > > *************************************** > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: FrameMaker vs. Interleaf 1992 Cartoon TNahal.JPG > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 239942 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers-frameusers.com/attachments/20200409/a715aa84/attachment.jpe > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:44:27 +0000 > From: Craig Ede <[email protected]> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] cartoon > Message-ID: > < > dm5pr07mb35777dfa773619a0307852e0d5...@dm5pr07mb3577.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Tarlochan Nahal, > > The cartoon didn't attach to the post. Can you send it to me directly. > > Thanks. > Craig Ede > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:52:11 -0700 > From: Robert Lauriston <[email protected]> > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > Message-ID: > <CAN3Yy4DPhOdA1=ibBjtDJRea998AqeEdr_18+0F= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Interleaf was eventually acquired by Broadleaf, which renamed it > Quicksilver, which still exists. > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:33 AM Tarlochan S. Nahal <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > My nostalgia goes further back! > > > > As many of you might know there was another heavy-weight technical > > publishing tool called Interleaf. I really liked it and had a much better > > graphic tool when FrameMaker was not even able to create a "dotted line," > > but it practically disappeared by the mid-1990s. There might still be > some > > licenses floating around, especially with some defense contractors. ... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 14:54:24 -0400 > From: <[email protected]> > To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Reading all this nostalgia makes ME feel young again. And I was at the > Apollo 11 launch. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 14:16:27 -0500 > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > Message-ID: > <CAGoR+Ajr+vGiO2P1DTJs=mTC= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Obviously two sumo wrestlers are too big to fit through the filter mesh at > once. Perhaps try sending one at a time ;) Otherwise, please consider > posting the cartoon to DropBox or a similar sharing repository. > > Yes, the company user group meetings bring back memories! In 1994, I > started doing tech support for a Silicon Valley FrameMaker reseller. Our > customers comprised almost all of the then major tech companies. I used to > visit a few customer sites regularly, to sit in on user groups, or to hold > one-on-one problem-solving sessions. > > The company's principals developed, then sold off, the first UNIX > license-management software, which enabled Frame Technology to sell FM with > more-affordable floating licenses. They also developed a table-calculation > add-on tool for FrameMaker tables, for FM3 on UNIX. Adobe declined their > offer to sell licensing rights when they bought Frame Technology, because > they claimed they intended to build their own table calculator into a > future release. > > Don't regret those user groups that may seem lost; this and other online > FrameMaker forums that date back to the dawn of the internet, are the > evolved versions of those early UGs. > > The first feature FM I saw that blew me away was the built-in screenshot > option on UNIX FM3 in 1989! > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:32 PM Tarlochan S. Nahal <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > My nostalgia goes further back! > > > > As many of you might know there was another heavy-weight technical > > publishing tool called Interleaf. I really liked it and had a much better > > graphic tool when FrameMaker was not even able to create a "dotted line," > > but it practically disappeared by the mid-1990s. There might still be > some > > licenses floating around, especially with some defense contractors. > > > > FrameMaker was coming strong in the early 1990s and Interleaf was losing > > steam fairly rapidly. Why? Well, Interleaf started to dilly-dally on > > customer service and won't pick phone calls if anyone had any problems > with > > installation or usage. It was a great software, but it failed to keep up > > with customer demands. Sometimes I feel the same way about FrameMaker > > today. Why doesn't the installation link always work? Why do you have to > > spend hours on the phone with customer service to get it going? Why don't > > they have user group meetings in the local high tech companies once in a > > month as they did in the 1990s? It was great way to get real customer > > feedback from people who are the actual users and front-line warriors. > They > > almost mishandled DITA and abdicated their responsibility to XML DITA, > etc. > > As a result, Adobe lost a significant market share to other vendors. In > > spite of all that I have been a loyal user of FrameMaker for decades. > > > > Anyway, I share with you a cartoon in the form of two sumo wrestlers > that > > I asked a friend of mine Bill Bergman to make for me in 1992. Please > enjoy. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Tarlochan Nahal > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:19 PM <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Send Framers mailing list submissions to [email protected] > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You > > > can reach the person managing the list at > > > [email protected] When replying, please edit your > > > Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers > > > digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight) > > > 2. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold) > > > 3. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight) > > > 4. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold) > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:33:46 -0400 > > > From: Jerilynne Knight <[email protected]> > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > <[email protected]> > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > Message-ID: > > > <CA+h60BiK0c93dqh5AFKytW0b_hfy_J= > > > [email protected]> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > Oh wowser Mark...I forgot about the Gem environment! And I remember > that > > > DOS-based machine...had one of them! > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:42 PM Mark Soiseth <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. > It > > > > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned > > how > > > > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based > > > machines > > > > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:01:22 -0500 > > > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > <[email protected]> > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > Message-ID: > > > <CAGoR+AjTF1O3Q198gSbAaArp7149imHuriuLp6SKZNPjw= > > > [email protected]> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of > us > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 1:41 PM Mark Soiseth <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. > It > > > > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned > > how > > > > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based > > > machines > > > > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. > > > > > > > > But, yes, Corel did not do it justice. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 05:05, Jerilynne Knight < > > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Bjorn...I didn't follow Ventura that far into present time, > > > although I > > > > > loved it when I learned it a Xerox. Once Corel took it over, I > > though I > > > > was > > > > > the only one who was both disappointed and disgusted with the poor > > job > > > > they > > > > > were doing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Studio Smalbro <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I followed Ventura all the way from the early versions on floppy > > > disks > > > > > > to the latest Corel Version 10. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > > Archives located at > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > Archives located at > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:42 -0400 > > > From: Jerilynne Knight <[email protected]> > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > <[email protected]> > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > Message-ID: > > > <CA+h60BhfQnHTJ8HASmtoEUjwzdpW=LEe6aQB6J= > > > [email protected]> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many > of > > us > > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 4 > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:27:50 -0500 > > > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > <[email protected]> > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > Message-ID: > > > <CAGoR+Ag5ebCw=SJ=hbhUEfy6s+yY=iOscz= > > > [email protected]> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > Dang autocorrect. Should have been "first-hand" not "first-have." > > > > > > Ok, I won't start your feet moving down that path. ;) > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 9:13 PM Jerilynne Knight < > > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold > <[email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many > > of > > > us > > > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > Archives located at > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > This daily digest is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > Archives located at > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > End of Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > > > *************************************** > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: FrameMaker vs. Interleaf 1992 Cartoon TNahal.JPG > > Type: image/jpeg > > Size: 239942 bytes > > Desc: not available > > URL: < > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers-frameusers.com/attachments/20200409/a715aa84/attachment.jpe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > Archives located at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 13:26:15 -0600 > From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [Framers] Please change subject line for digest posts and > trim them > Message-ID: > < > mailman.76369.1586460377.2344.framers-frameusers....@lists.frameusers.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Framers, remember that when you are on digest and respond to a post, > you must change the subject line and also trim out all of the > original digest messages, leaving only a sentence or two of the > message that you are replying to. When someone forgets to do this, > then the error perpetuates as more messages contain the wrong subject > and are littered with the original digest content (as shown below). > Please help by remembering to make these changes. > > Carol Elkins > List Mom > > At 01:16 PM 4/9/2020, Peter Gold wrote: > >Obviously two sumo wrestlers are too big to fit through the filter mesh at > >once. Perhaps try sending one at a time ;) Otherwise, please consider > >posting the cartoon to DropBox or a similar sharing repository. > > > >Yes, the company user group meetings bring back memories! In 1994, I > >started doing tech support for a Silicon Valley FrameMaker reseller. Our > >customers comprised almost all of the then major tech companies. I used to > >visit a few customer sites regularly, to sit in on user groups, or to hold > >one-on-one problem-solving sessions. > > > >The company's principals developed, then sold off, the first UNIX > >license-management software, which enabled Frame Technology to sell FM > with > >more-affordable floating licenses. They also developed a table-calculation > >add-on tool for FrameMaker tables, for FM3 on UNIX. Adobe declined their > >offer to sell licensing rights when they bought Frame Technology, because > >they claimed they intended to build their own table calculator into a > >future release. > > > >Don't regret those user groups that may seem lost; this and other online > >FrameMaker forums that date back to the dawn of the internet, are the > >evolved versions of those early UGs. > > > >The first feature FM I saw that blew me away was the built-in screenshot > >option on UNIX FM3 in 1989! > > > >On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:32 PM Tarlochan S. Nahal <[email protected]> > >wrote: > > > > > My nostalgia goes further back! > > > > > > As many of you might know there was another heavy-weight technical > > > publishing tool called Interleaf. I really liked it and had a much > better > > > graphic tool when FrameMaker was not even able to create a "dotted > line," > > > but it practically disappeared by the mid-1990s. There might still be > some > > > licenses floating around, especially with some defense contractors. > > > > > > FrameMaker was coming strong in the early 1990s and Interleaf was > losing > > > steam fairly rapidly. Why? Well, Interleaf started to dilly-dally on > > > customer service and won't pick phone calls if anyone had any problems > with > > > installation or usage. It was a great software, but it failed to keep > up > > > with customer demands. Sometimes I feel the same way about FrameMaker > > > today. Why doesn't the installation link always work? Why do you have > to > > > spend hours on the phone with customer service to get it going? Why > don't > > > they have user group meetings in the local high tech companies once in > a > > > month as they did in the 1990s? It was great way to get real customer > > > feedback from people who are the actual users and front-line warriors. > They > > > almost mishandled DITA and abdicated their responsibility to XML DITA, > etc. > > > As a result, Adobe lost a significant market share to other vendors. In > > > spite of all that I have been a loyal user of FrameMaker for decades. > > > > > > Anyway, I share with you a cartoon in the form of two sumo wrestlers > that > > > I asked a friend of mine Bill Bergman to make for me in 1992. Please > enjoy. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Tarlochan Nahal > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:19 PM <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Send Framers mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You > > > > can reach the person managing the list at > > > > [email protected] When replying, please edit your > > > > Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers > > > > digest..." > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > 1. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight) > > > > 2. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold) > > > > 3. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight) > > > > 4. Re: Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold) > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:33:46 -0400 > > > > From: Jerilynne Knight <[email protected]> > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > > Message-ID: > > > > <CA+h60BiK0c93dqh5AFKytW0b_hfy_J= > > > > [email protected]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > Oh wowser Mark...I forgot about the Gem environment! And I remember > that > > > > DOS-based machine...had one of them! > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:42 PM Mark Soiseth <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM > environment. It > > > > > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I > learned > > > how > > > > > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based > > > > machines > > > > > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:01:22 -0500 > > > > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > > Message-ID: > > > > <CAGoR+AjTF1O3Q198gSbAaArp7149imHuriuLp6SKZNPjw= > > > > [email protected]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many > of us > > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 1:41 PM Mark Soiseth <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM > environment. It > > > > > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I > learned > > > how > > > > > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based > > > > machines > > > > > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. > > > > > > > > > > But, yes, Corel did not do it justice. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 05:05, Jerilynne Knight < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bjorn...I didn't follow Ventura that far into present time, > > > > although I > > > > > > loved it when I learned it a Xerox. Once Corel took it over, I > > > though I > > > > > was > > > > > > the only one who was both disappointed and disgusted with the > poor > > > job > > > > > they > > > > > > were doing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Studio Smalbro <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I followed Ventura all the way from the early versions on > floppy > > > > disks > > > > > > > to the latest Corel Version 10. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > > > Archives located at > > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > > Archives located at > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:42 -0400 > > > > From: Jerilynne Knight <[email protected]> > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > > Message-ID: > > > > <CA+h60BhfQnHTJ8HASmtoEUjwzdpW=LEe6aQB6J= > > > > [email protected]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. > Many of > > > us > > > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 4 > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:27:50 -0500 > > > > From: Peter Gold <[email protected]> > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 > > > > Message-ID: > > > > <CAGoR+Ag5ebCw=SJ=hbhUEfy6s+yY=iOscz= > > > > [email protected]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > Dang autocorrect. Should have been "first-hand" not "first-have." > > > > > > > > Ok, I won't start your feet moving down that path. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 9:13 PM Jerilynne Knight < > > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold > <[email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. > Many > > > of > > > > us > > > > > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > > Archives located at > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > This daily digest is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > > Archives located at > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > End of Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > > > > *************************************** > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > Name: FrameMaker vs. Interleaf 1992 Cartoon TNahal.JPG > > > Type: image/jpeg > > > Size: 239942 bytes > > > Desc: not available > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers-frameusers.com/attachments/20200409/a715aa84/attachment.jpe > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] > > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > > Archives located at > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > >Send messages to [email protected] > >Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > >Archives located at > >http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > >Subscribe and unsubscribe at > >http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > >Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 19:42:37 +0000 > From: Craig Ede <[email protected]> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Framers] FrameMaker User Groups WAS: Framers Digest, Vol > 169, Issue 8 > Message-ID: > < > dm5pr07mb357785ff854199727ea83443d5...@dm5pr07mb3577.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I remember giving a presentation on auto-numbering paragraphs (including > different head levels, figures, tables, etc. in a single numbering system) > to one of these User Groups at Medtronic in Minneapolis back in the 90s. > That group had folks from the airline as well as medical device industries > as well as others. > > Rolling along partway into the presentation I had someone from a rather > substantial audience say "Wait a minute!" and then point out an error in my > method. I turned around to look at the huge screen behind me and realized > she was right. I was stunned, frozen in the glare of the screen, > recognizing that my method was not going to work properly. A presenter's > nightmare. > > After a few moments (that seemed very long moments) I turned back to the > audience and said. "You're right. Let's fix this." I then did a revamping > of the method right there in front of the audience, highlighting the errors > and explaining the corrections. All that took place without a blip and the > newly defined method worked like a charm. The Adobe rep who was in the > audience later congratulated me on getting out of a pretty tough spot by > giving the audience a hand's on troubleshooting session that highlighted > many important aspects of how auto-numbering works (and how it doesn't). > That day I lost my fear of screwing up in front of an audience. > > There may be a few Twin-Citians out there who recall this. If so, don't > publicly burst my bubble if your recollection is different. Still, I trust > the impression of that Adobe rep. > > Craig > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > > This daily digest is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to [email protected] > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > ------------------------------ > > End of Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 9 > *************************************** > _______________________________________________ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to [email protected] Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to [email protected]
