Hey Nico,

Nico Meijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bill!
> I am joyfully amazed at how much one simple "yes" can stir up, other 
> than at weddings. ;-)

You'll have such "stirrings" when you deal with people who actually care
about what they do.  Folks that don't really care generally don't get
stirred up.  I take the fact that the FreeBSD community occasionally gets
pretty stirred up as a good sign that the community really cares about
what it does.

> First off: I didn't mean to put OP or anyone else off. Yes, I must 
> admit, there is a 'smart @$$' element in my answer, which is totally my bad.

Cool ... Although it's only my opinion ... I don't particularly think that
short answers are always bad, I was just worried that there _appeared_ to be
a trend emerging with short, underinformative answers.

> Please take note that I am a nice guy, usually overly helpful 
> (admittedly, not per se on this list, but I have a photograph to 
> actually prove my point ;-) ) and light hearted. You cannot actually see 
> my emails are written with a smile on my face. My bad, again.

I don't doubt it.

> > This is not an answer to the question.
> Yes and no. Yes, remote access. Yes, multiple sessions. No, the hidden 
> questions I did not answer. With a purpose, I must add.

I got that impression, and I prefer to supply a reference to Grog's paper
on asking questions (or even ESR's) or directly point out the shortcomings
of the question, than to assume that the OP will "get the hint".  Again,
my opinion, but I've found that, far too often, I didn't present the
hint well enough to be gotten ...

> > It does not answer the question and does
> > not contribute to the OPs knowledge of FreeBSD, nor does it contribute to the
> > list archives.
> In a 'smart @$$' way, I was actually trying to get OP to *think* about 
> his question and hopefully restate it. Taken as it is (i.e. literally), 
> it was a wrong question with a right answer.
> OP might have asked additionally: "If so, where could I begin to read 
> and learn for myself?" Basically, "Will you help me to help myself?" To 
> me, that is on the right track. "Will you hold my hand and do it for 
> me?" is off limits, if you ask me, but OP was not going for this, obviously.

I agree with this.  If you care to search the list archives (please don't)
you'll find that I've occasionally been guilty of going the other way with
this (i.e. I'll feed an obvious Troll for several posts in the hopes that
he'll come around) so we're all imperfect.

> > It's also a violation of the rule against "me too" answers as
> > laid out in "How to Get the Best Results from FreeBSD-Questions".
> I'll be sure to reread it.

I try to reread it every few months, so I don't forget the points it

> > It doesn't
> > even serve to educate the OP on how to ask better questins.
> You're probably right, although my intentions were just that.

I thought they might be.

> > You could say that "technically, he didn't ask" but it
> > boils down to just being rude.
> I disagree. :-)
> <straight-through-the-middle>
> Asking a question on a high traffic mailing list without showing you've 
> done some basic homework is rude. Implying/hiding questions instead of 
> asking them directly is rude. (Hey, I was implying aswell!)
> </straight-through-the-middle>

The problem is that most folks don't really understand the nature of this
mailing list the first time they post.  There are some folks that lurk
for quite a while before posting for the first time, but it seems to me
that most folks post before they fully understand the nature of the
mailing list.

> ESR has a well written piece on this very matter.

Yup.  I'm familiar with both ESR's and Grog's writings on this, and I
refer people to them both.

> > I don't think answers like this reflect well on FreeBSD or the FreeBSD
> > community.  Short answers like "see 'man foo'" are appropriate, as they impart
> > some knowledge and tell the OP that his question is answered in the indicated
> > documentation, but this doesn't follow that template.
> What greater good is there than to help someone help themselves? I guess 
> none.

I agree.

> So yes, I had done better had I pointed at some docs. I apologize for 
> not doing that.

Thank you.  I'm appreciate your contributions to the list, as well as your
efforts to improve.  I'm sure everyone does.  The FreeBSD community needs
more folks like you!

> Bye... Nico 'my bad' Meijer

Hell, we all make mistakes.  If that short post is the worse mistake
you made today, then you're doing a whole lot better than me!

> P.S. Although I *do* feel a greeting at the top of a message makes a 
> world of difference. :-) Did you notice OP greeted? Did you notice I 
> did? Can you see me smiling right now? :-)

I'll try to remember to do that.  Might take me a little while to turn
it into a habit.

Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
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