On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 11:35:53AM +0100, Michiel de Jong wrote:
- We tested installing the WebID debian package, which lead to generation of partial install instruction - up to the point where we couldn't get it to work, and sent a request for help to the foaf mailinglist.
I saw later (due to my [interruption]) that you'd discussed how Clint and I had added those new WebID packages to Debian unstable (Sid) rather than Debian stable (Squeeze), and wondered if unstable is now what FreedomBox is gonna be build upon?
Yes and no.We are working towards creating FreedomBox. The real physical thing that's gonna save the World from the Dark Side. The final product might come in multiple shapes and might even be multiple completely different things altogether - or it might end in a single final design. Time (and our style of participation) will tell.
It is obvious to me, however, that there won't be one revision of FreedomBox - multiflavored or not. There will be corrections, security updates, and feature updates. And before all that there will be development drafts not at all usable for consumption by our target userbase.
Yes, it makes sense at the current stage to develop with Sid - when you want to work on things unstable. And yes, it makes sense to develop using Squeeze when your interest is not in exploring new stuff but put together stable parts.
If you want a FreedomBox production-ready in a month, then don't use Sid. And don't use Pagekite or NetSukuku or WebID or P2PSIP or P2P-DNS. Avoid _all_ the new cool stuff - use _only_ boring oldschool stuff!
Personally I believe that Semantic Web, and graphing math applied to it, was the key to the success of Google and Facebook, and can be the key to the success of decentralized tools as well. So I spend/waste time on what I believe to be "the next cool thing" - WebID. And I contribute the way I am good at: by packaging already invented and already coded pieces for Debian, and have it included into Debian officially.
New stuff cannot ever be added officially to Debian stable (Squeeze). "New stuff" is always unstable - not in itself (then it shouldn't even be targeted Sid but the "experimental" branch!) but its integration and interaction with the other 30.000 packages is ustable: as a whole _distribution_ it is unstable when containing new parts.
I also, unofficially, provide packages targeted Debian stable. That takes more time, so sunday I didn't have them ready. Even when I do, I am 1 (one) Debian Debeloper, not a thousand, so claiming that the combination "Debian stable (Squeeze)" and "a few new packages by Jonas" put together is a stable mixture would be foolish: it is "almost stable" at most!
We have lots tasks ahead of us - many more than mentioned here! Above I spoke first about "imaging" and then about my "packaging". Let me got back to "imaging" again:
You can try put a system together *today* containing WebID. That will be a system built from an _unstable_ distribution with _unofficial_ parts. Which means highly risky to release to others due to e.g. no guaranteed upgrade path or security bugfixes provided.
You can try put a system together *tomorrow* containing WebID. That will be a system built from an _stable_ distribution with _unofficial_ parts. Which means somewhat risky to release to others, because key parts only potentially has upgrade path and security bugfixes provided.
You can try put a system together *today* containing Pagekite or NetSukuku or [your favorite tool here]. That will be a system built from (possibly a stable) distribution with _non-packaged_ parts. Again risky to release to others because all or some parts lac upgrade path and security bugfixes. Also more difficult for peer Freedom fighters (and possibly difficult for yourself too) to reliably replicate (i.e. not copy result but mimic the process) due to those non-packaged parts.
Finally you can try put a system together *today* from only Debian stable (Squeeze). That will be a system built from an _stable_ distribution. Which means sensible to release to others, because all parts has upgrade path and a dedicated team provides security bugfixes.
Obviously just making an image of Debian stable is too crude to senisbly call a FreedomBox 1.0. Lots of _other_ tasks you can do *today* other than imaging - this was just reflections on Sunday work on WebID.
...or you can wait for Godot. Or Eben. Or a pile of money. Maybe the World is easier to fix tomorrow :-P
- Jonas[interruption]: I was away from the keyboard, as my [step-daughter] had a task for school on writing a newspaper-style article. She made an interview on me starting at "What's wrong with Facebook? Nah, we all know that it sucks. You guys are doing something to attack it, right? What's up with that?" and when her cellphone voice recorder timed out after an hour, I was trying to point out how WebID and Semantic Web could be a key stepping stone in the Singularity. She is fourteen.
[step-daughter]: ...or as the politically correct term is in denmark these days: bonus daughter :-)
-- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
_______________________________________________ Freedombox-discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
