On 3/8/11 7:40 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
It is obvious to me, however, that there won't be one revision of
FreedomBox - multiflavored or not. There will be corrections, security
updates, and feature updates. And before all that there will be
development drafts not at all usable for consumption by our target
userbase.
Maybe FreedomBox should have its own unstable / stable distros? Not
forks so much as overlays of packages on existing Debian distros. Just
thinking conceptually here. I'm not clued on how these things work,
though, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.
If you want a FreedomBox production-ready in a month, then don't use
Sid. And don't use Pagekite or NetSukuku or WebID or P2PSIP or
P2P-DNS. Avoid _all_ the new cool stuff - use _only_ boring oldschool
stuff!
Some of the new stuff like Pagekite seems interesting to have in a
FreedomBox. An unstable FreedomBox distro could have PageKite—maybe even
before Debian unstable—but stable FreedomBox would only have it once
it's gone through the same release process any other Debian package does
Personally I believe that Semantic Web, and graphing math applied to
it, was the key to the success of Google and Facebook, and can be the
key to the success of decentralized tools as well. So I spend/waste
time on what I believe to be "the next cool thing" - WebID. And I
contribute the way I am good at: by packaging already invented and
already coded pieces for Debian, and have it included into Debian
officially.
I need to spend some time wrapping my head around WebID, but that
contribution sounds great to me. Anything new that doesn't yet have a
Debian package, yet could contribute to a FreedomBox, should get wrapped
up in a package and go through the usual Debian process for inclusion.
Maybe FreedomBox needs its own unstable sandbox distro where new stuff
gets packaged and played with until it makes it into Debian proper?
Again, not a fork, fully intending to flow into Debian proper once the
kinks are worked out.
New stuff cannot ever be added officially to Debian stable (Squeeze).
"New stuff" is always unstable - not in itself (then it shouldn't even
be targeted Sid but the "experimental" branch!) but its integration
and interaction with the other 30.000 packages is ustable: as a whole
_distribution_ it is unstable when containing new parts.
That sounds sensible to me. ...
You can try put a system together *today* containing WebID. That will
be a system built from an _unstable_ distribution with _unofficial_
parts. Which means highly risky to release to others due to e.g. no
guaranteed upgrade path or security bugfixes provided.
That sounds like an unstable FreedomBox distro to me.
You can try put a system together *tomorrow* containing WebID. That
will be a system built from an _stable_ distribution with _unofficial_
parts. Which means somewhat risky to release to others, because key
parts only potentially has upgrade path and security bugfixes provided.
That sounds like a stable FreedomBox distro to me - eg. Debian stable,
just with preset package list.
You can try put a system together *today* containing Pagekite or
NetSukuku or [your favorite tool here]. That will be a system built
from (possibly a stable) distribution with _non-packaged_ parts.
Again risky to release to others because all or some parts lac upgrade
path and security bugfixes. Also more difficult for peer Freedom
fighters (and possibly difficult for yourself too) to reliably
replicate (i.e. not copy result but mimic the process) due to those
non-packaged parts.
Why non-packaged? If there's something that should be in the FreedomBox
(even if unstable), shouldn't packaging it up be one of the first steps?
Finally you can try put a system together *today* from only Debian
stable (Squeeze). That will be a system built from an _stable_
distribution. Which means sensible to release to others, because all
parts has upgrade path and a dedicated team provides security bugfixes.
Obviously just making an image of Debian stable is too crude to
senisbly call a FreedomBox 1.0. Lots of _other_ tasks you can do
*today* other than imaging - this was just reflections on Sunday work
on WebID.
...or you can wait for Godot. Or Eben. Or a pile of money. Maybe the
World is easier to fix tomorrow :-P
Seems like getting *something* stable running with Debian on a plug
computer (or a VM pretending to be one) might be a good first step
toward bootstrap. It wouldn't be FreedomBox 1.0, but it would be a
stable base to get everyone on the same page and start throwing unstable
things at.
--
[email protected]
http://decafbad.com
{web,mad,computer} scientist
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