Hi Eric, Thank you for so detailed explanation. I'll take time to read your e-mail. If I have new discoveries or new questions, I'll ping you again.
Best regards, Robbie Fan On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Eric Auer <e.a...@jpberlin.de> wrote: > > Hi Robbie / Decheng, > > > don't know what's the standard (or recommended) development environment > > to develop applications in FreeDOS. Would you please let me know? > > That depends on what sorts of applications you want to write. > OpenWatcom is certainly a nice choice for C / C++, as ist NASM > for Assembly language. You can also use JWASM which has more of > the MASM look and feel. If you like GNU C (GCC / G++) then you > should have a look at DJGPP which is GNU C / C++ for DOS with a > complete C library which makes the whole DOS feel a lot like a > "normal GNU / POSIX OS" such as Linux compared to classics like > Borland C which have a lot of DOS in their DOS environment :-) > > I do know that DJGPP also has some common(?) IDEs and that some > bigger editors also try to be universal IDEs, but I cannot say > what the typical preferred IDE for OpenWatcom is at the moment. > > > I've checked out the subversion repository of FreeDOS... > > This only shows you the kernel and the command.com and some > small tools like SYS and MEM. In a way, the SVN of FreeDOS > is more like a kernel.org repository. You probably want to > look at the gnu.org repository equivalent of all those user > land tools which make FreeDOS a complete operating system. > > Because FreeDOS does not have such a central repository, a > lot like in Linux land where most of the software also has > individual pages instead of being bundled on gnu.org, you > would not do this using SVN. Instead, you can check the DOS > software list on www.freedos.org/software/ and visit those > pages that are interesting for you. Also, FreeDOS maintains > a big collection of zipped up tools and their sources on > ibiblio. It is just that those are not the place where the > tools are developed, FreeDOS just stores and mirrors them. > > > freecom - from the trunk directory it seems it contains the FreeCom > shell, > > kernel - from trunk directory it seems it contains the kernel source > code, > > mem - from the trunk directory it seems it contains mem.exe source code? > > Exactly. > > > BTW, my point of interest is in the kernel part and also utility > > applications. As I've always been developing user-mode applications since > > I've learned programming 15 years ago, to develop the kernel it would > take > > some time for me to start. To learn about the kernel, I'd also like to > know > > how to compile the kernel, e.g. which compiler is the standard or... > > The kernel is on one hand a bit like a C library - it provides a > number of utility functions for DOS apps and those functions are > written just in C as any other library would be... On the other > hand, like all kernels, parts of the FreeDOS kernel have to deal > with evil and obscure low level management of hardware, RAM etc. > Lucklily the BIOS is called for some of this and even much of the > low level stuff is written in easier to understand C. Still the > kernel (as FreeCOM, for other reasons) has different memory layout > and management than you might be used to from user applications. > > To compile the kernel, you use OpenWatcom C, NASM Assembler and > FreeCOM and UPX as shell in DOS and for compression. Because all > tools exist for Linux, cross-compiling is also supported. Then > you do not need FreeCOM, of course. > > > do you have any suggestions on how to test/debug the kernel? > > Depends on how badly you want to break it ;-) You can test many > things in DOSEMU which runs on your real CPU but simulates most > other hardware in Linux. It also has a built-in debugger which > runs in another window. More low level is using Bochs or other > complete virtual PC systems. For example Bochs also has a nice > built-in debugger. However, I would only go THAT virtual when I > want to play with a very lowlevel kernel feature or driver such > as a clone of EMM386. For all smaller kernel activities, you can > even just boot the kernel on real hardware and add some debugger > messages here and there or use good old DEBUG to inspect, maybe > edit, memory contents. In the normal worst case, you just have > to press reset to boot a fresh DOS in a few seconds. There is a > number of boot menus (eg metaboot is a simple one) which let you > pick one of multiple kernels at boot, so you can combine stable > and experimental kernels on one drive. Of course the "extreme" > worst case can, as with any kernel, mess up your disk contents, > or in theory even damage hardware, but as said, there is Bochs. > > > A short introduction of myself: I graduated from Shanghai Jiao Tong > > University computer science as a bachelor in 2004, and got a master of > > engineering degree from SJTU in 2009 (in computer technology). I've > worked > > on C/C++ programming on the Windows platform, C#/ASP.NET/Windows Forms, > also > > some C++/CLI; I've self-studied MS-DOS, QBASIC, JavaScript/CSS/HTML. I've > > You have a lot of MS experience then... Honestly, I never found MSVC > very debugging-friendly... As for QBASIC, the Freebasic compiler has > a command line option to be more friendly to QBASIC style syntax :-) > > As with Java, I do not expect very interesting DOS ports of C# for > DOS to exist. On the other hand, there are decent Perls for DOS... > > A lot of your experience also revolves around web and server tools > and languages. Web servers are not a typical application in DOS, as > it is not multitasked. Also, DOS web servers rarely support common > scripting languages such as Perl, Python or ASP. Of course you can > use JavaScript or CSS in your HTML with a DOS server, but BROWSERS > for DOS will often ignore them and just look at the plain HTML. You > might be interested to play with projects which work to change that. > > > played with Linux for half a year so got basic knowledge of it. Among the > > computer science knowledge, I did well at data structure/common > algorithms, > > assembly programming in 8086/80386 (user mode). I want to advance my > skills > > in operating systems so I'd like to learn about FreeDOS first, while also > do > > some contribution as long as I can. > > I think you will enjoy DOS then. It gives you flexibility to write > user mode apps (with some limitations compared to bigger OS) while > giving you the chance to create small software which has a direct > feeling with the hardware because the OS layer is less heavy there > which in turn makes it interesting to look at and work with the DOS > kernel itself: The kernel has manageable complexity and mortals can > actually understand the whole kernel while in Linux it will be hard > to find an expert who even understands the whole disk subsystem ;-) > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > Robbie (Decheng) Fan (aka R.Mosaic) > > Thanks! Regards, Eric > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a FREE DOWNLOAD! and learn more about uberSVN rich system, > user administration capabilities and model configuration. Take > the hassle out of deploying and managing Subversion and the > tools developers use with it. http://p.sf.net/sfu/wandisco-d2d-2 > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > -- Fan Decheng (AKA Robbie Mosaic) Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow. -- Eric S. Raymond GPL is less free in some aspects. -- Bram Moolenaar
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