Following up from our discussion last time about packages (the "Simplifying FreeDOS" discussion from late October / early November), and from Jerome's package survey (still in progress) and from today's virtual get-together, I wanted to share current thoughts/proposals about the packages for the FreeDOS 1.3 distribution.
To set the stage: The FreeDOS distribution has grown over time. We always intended FreeDOS to not just replace MS-DOS, but to surpass it. That means FreeDOS is "MS-DOS pus more." To make clear what packages were *adding* to DOS, we created package groups: "Base" replaces all the core functionality of traditional MS-DOS, "Devel" contains compilers and other developer tools, "Editors" contains other editors beyond the standard EDIT program, and so on. Over time, FreeDOS has grown to include a lot of interesting programs. But that means FreeDOS is also very big. In our last discussion on this topic, I suggested removing some packages from FreeDOS that aren't useful anymore. I proposed a list of what to keep and what to remove, and folks shared their responses. Here's my updated *proposal* based on previous feedback. Let me know your thoughts! And a reminder that "To drop" only means "not included in the FreeDOS distribution." We will still have them available in the FreeDOS archive at Ibiblio. The package names below are copied from the Packages wiki page <http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3/Packages>. This isn't completely up-to-date with Jerome's package survey, so I know I've missed some things. Add those where you find them. *Base:* Keep everything, except the outdated sample config package. These get installed no matter if you choose "Base" or "Full." And included in the "Live" CD. *to keep:* append assign attrib chkdsk choice command comp cpidos ctmouse debug defrag deltree devload diskcomp diskcopy display dosfsck edit edlin exe2bin fc fdapm fdisk fdxms fdxms286 find format graphics help himemx jemm kernel keyb keyb_lay label lbacache mem mirror mkeyb mode more move nansi nlsfunc print recover replace *to drop:* samcfg *Archivers:* Keep everything, except the packages as indicated in the wiki that are not open source. Include everything in the "Live" CD. But only install zip & unzip with the "Base" and "Full" distribution (the others should go in "Extras" so they are not installed by default) *to keep [always install]:* unzip zip *to keep [only in "Extras"]:* 7zdec arj bz2 cabext gzip lpq1 lzip lzma lzop p7zip tar zoo *to drop:* lha unrar *Boot Tools:* These are small, but "ROM" boot utilities are not generally useful. Those who need these tools will be able to find them in the FreeDOS files archive. *to keep:* (none) *to drop:* romdsk romos syslnx *Development:* There's a lot of extra development tools that aren't used by a lot of people these days, if they were used much at all: drop the Euphoria interpreter/compiler and Lua scripting language. Remove the extra and less-used compilers: drop Bruce's C Compiler, MSA assembler, and TinyASM. Remove the SUPPL library - developers who need it can download it. Also remove the closed-source TPPATCH. There's value in keeping an *interpreted* BASIC environment, and in keeping a *compiled* BASIC like FreeBASIC. Keep Bywater BASIC, and add GW-BASIC. When GW-BASIC is up to full features, we might consider removing Bywater BASIC in favor of GW-BASIC at that time. *to keep:* bwbasic cpp2ccmt DJGPP (*djgpp djgpp_bn djgpp_bs djgpp_db djgpp_fq djgpp_fx djgpp_gc djgpp_gp djgpp_mk djgpp_ob djgpp_rh djgpp_tx*) fasm FreeBASIC (*fbc fbc_help*) fpc IA16GCC (*gcc-ia16 i16budoc i16butil i16gcc i16gcdoc i16newli i16src*) *insight* jwasm nasm ow perl regina *runtime* upx *to drop:* bcc euphoria lua msa suppls tinyasm tppatch *additional questions: Is the Insight debugger still used/useful? And what about the Runtime program? The 'Development' group is very big; should these be installed during a "Full" install? I propose we leave these as "Extras" and let developers install them if they want them.* *Editors:* I don't know what to suggest here. I think we all have our favorites. I think keep them unless there's a good reason to drop one. But I think we should avoid adding any others unless there's a very compelling reason to add. *to keep:* biew blocek doshexed e3 elvis fed freemacs mbedit mined msedit ospedit pico setedit tde uhex vim *to drop:* (none) *additional questions: That's a lot of editors. Should these be installed during a "Full" install? I think leave these as "Extras" and let people install just the editors they want.* *Emulators:* These are basically games. For years, I'd resisted including games in the FreeDOS distribution. Everyone has a favorite game, and the idea of including games always generated more distraction than useful discussion. But someone pointed out that many people use FreeDOS to play classic DOS games, so we should include some nice open source DOS games too. So yes, include some games. But games are something we can add and remove as games become popular or not. The emulators are a different class of game, however. They emulate other gaming systems, like SNES, and require you to download ROMs before they can be useful. Since you have to download something to use it anyway, people who want to use the emulators can download the emulator too. From last time, I didn't see any objection to removing the emulators. *to keep:* (none) *to drop:* meka mines nosefart simcoupe sneese vice z26 zboy zsnes *Games:* General response from the last discussion was to make sure we have fun games in a few different genres, so everyone has something to play. Install these as part of a "Full" install. I have played a few of the games from this list, but not all, so I don't have strong opinions (yet) on which should stay or go. Definitely remove the games that have questionable licenses: Kiloblaster, Linley's Dungeon Crawl, and PSR Invaders. *to keep ["Full" install]:* bolitare *boom* btitanic eliza empong ewsnake fmines *freedoom* frotz gnuchess hangman ivan kraptor liquiwar magnetic mirmagic nethack nge_nibb pakupaku *qtetris* snova sudoku86 vertigo *vitetris* wing ww1 zmiy *to drop:* kiloblas lincrawl psrinvad *additional questions: We have a few games that duplicate each other, like Boom & Freedoom, and Tetris Queen & Vitetris. Would be nice to "pick one."* *I know I've missed some on this list. We should add Dr Mind and Simple Senet. Not sure what else I missed.* *Graphical Desktop:* We added GUIs a long time ago when they were still under active development. Seems like folks would like to have a graphical desktop. oZone and Seal look nice, but still have some bugs and missing features, yet haven't been updated in years. Drop oZone and Seal. Keep OpenGEM, which isn't being updated but is stable and feature-complete; also, OpenGEM provides good compatibility with DR-DOS's ViewMax file manager. Install OpenGEM as part of a "Full" install. PC-GEOS would be nice to add, *and it does compile*, but the PC-GEOS folks say this isn't ready for general availability yet. Consider PC-GEOS for future release, but not now. *to keep ["Full" install]:* opengem *to drop:* ozonegui seal *Networking:* Feedback is to keep the networking packages. I'm not sure about Gopherus, but it's "retro" and not too big (2MB) so I have no problems keeping it. *to keep:* arachne crynwr curl dillo dwol e1000pkt e100pkt ethtools fdnet gopherus htget links lynx m2wat mskermit mtcp newsnuz ntool picosntp picotcp ping rsync ssh2dos sshdos vmsmount vncview wattcp wget *added from Utilities:* terminal *to drop:* (none) *additional questions: Should these packages be installed as part of a "Full" install? I think it's big, but we should install them as part of "Full" so people can use these packages to get online. It's 2020, going online is pretty expected.* *Sound:* I didn't see any discussion on this last time, so it's still open. My thoughts are to keep most of these. I think the emphasis should be *playing* media, not *encoding* media - so drop the Blade encoder but keep the rest. Install this group as part of a "Full" install. *to keep ["Full" install]:* adplay cdp dosmid lame mplayer opencp *to drop:* bladeenc *Unix-like:* These are interesting and useful utilities for newer folks who discover FreeDOS after having used Linux, so I think these should stay. Install them all as part of a "Full" install. But remove the old tail and uptime, which have license issues. There's a duplicate uptimec that has an open source license, so keep that instead of the old uptime. Someone proposed a new tail program, under an open source license, so that's added here. *to keep ["Full" install]:* cal du gnubc gnused grep head less md5sum nro sleep tail tee touch trch uptimec which xgrep *added from Utilities ["Full" install]:* minibox *to drop:* tail[old] uptime *Utilities:* This is a *huge* package group, so we should think about what really needs to stay and if there's anything to drop. If we want to keep most (all?) of this group, we might consider creating a new package group (or groups) and move some packages there, to provide better organization. In general, I think the focus in the utilities should be *doing stuff* instead of *making stuff*. Programs that I think are no longer needed and should be dropped include gifsicle (manipulates GIF images) and Hide In Picture (steganography program that hides files inside pictures). I think we might also drop FlashROM (eeprom firmware and bios save/update tool) since it's got a pretty narrow use case. Also could remove PasswordBox, since a password manager on DOS has limited usefulness (no web fill-in .. and people who use a password manager [myself included] are probably not jumping back to DOS to use it.) pdTree seems to provide duplicate functionality to Tree in the "Base" group, so remove this as well. I would also remove PNGcrush because it has a narrow use case, and I think only a few people (if anyone) uses this on DOS. Also drop the utilities (4dos paint2 start) that have license concerns. *to keep ["Full" install]:* aefdisk ansimat b64 bmp2png bootfix bsum callver cdrcache cdrom2ui clamav clamdb cpied cwsdpmi daa2iso dialog dn2 dog dos32a doslfn dosutil doszip dzemm fdimples fdisrc fdnpkg *fdshell* fdshield *fdtui* finddisk foxcalc foxtype gnuchcp gnufonts hexcomp hiram lfndos localcfg localize lptdrv memteste ntfs ospimg part pcisleep pg pgme raread rawrite rcal search setlock shareext shsufdrv slowdown spool sqlite srdisk stamp switchar testdisk topspin udvd2 unrtf usbdos utf8tocp v8power wcd wde whichfat wptail xdel xfdisk xkeyb zerofill *to drop:* 4dos flashrom gifsicle hip paint2 password pbox pdtree pngcrush start *moved to Networking:* terminal *moved to Unix-like:* minibox *additional questions: I recall that FDTUI replaced FDShell, or was it the other way around? That suggests we should drop one of these.* What do you think? Jim
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