On 07/20/2012 12:28 PM, Petr Viktorin wrote:
On 07/20/2012 05:39 PM, John Dennis wrote:
Great I agree with everything you said.

I'm happy to have the file list be derived from the directory contents.
Are you planning on doing that in another patch?

Yes, I want to do it in a new patch.
It's a bit more complicated than it looks: creating a new translation
will work differently than just adding it to LINGUAS and running
create-po. The ticket is for beta 2 so I'd rather not start a new round
of reviews.

Fine with me to do that in another patch.

As for create-po, I think that's also holdover from pre-Transifex days. With Transifex I'd don't ever see a need to create an empty po file. Do you? Maybe we should just nuke the po creation in the Makefile.

FWIW the LINGUAS file was a holdover from when we first set this up
based exclusively on GNU gettext suggested examples. As things have
evolved it no longer makes sense. Also the contributing translators file
is now out of date and was from an earlier era when translators emailed
.po files to us, so it was easy to maintain. Now that everything is TX
based we should probably nuke that file or figure out someway to extract
the contributors from either TX or the po files. I'm not sure we're even
giving credit to the translators anymore, but we should.

Noted; when the discussion's done I'll file a ticket.

But... I do have one final issue/question. I missed this in the first
review. po_files is now dependent on update-pot instead of the pot file.
We had decided that we were only going to regenerate the pot file on
demand at specific times. Won't this dependency change cause the pot
file to be updated frequently? (I realize only in the local tree). Note
that when we run the validations we generate a temporary pot file from
the current contents of the tree specifically to avoid overwriting the
pot file.

Are the po files updated more often? I don't really see a reason to
merge the po files with an old pot.

What merge are you referring to? The only merge I'm aware of at the moment is during validation, but that merge is done from a temporary updated pot file that is current with the tree.

Any other merging is done by Transifex at the time we pull a po file.

The frequency of po update doesn't seem relevant, what is your concern in this regard?

I suppose having a conversation about when the pot file gets updated is
a good one to have, we don't do it often enough IMHO. But I'm not sure
it's correct to modify a file under SCM control if it wasn't intentional.

How is Transifex set up here? If it automatically picks up changes when
the pot file is modified, then we should back up the translations before
changing the pot, so we can't do it automatically.
Another wart is the line number cruft in the pot file -- any time it's
updated we'll get a huge diff, so it makes sense to update sparingly.

Transifex gives you two options for your pot file, either you tell TX the location of your pot file in a public SCM and it watches for updates and automatically pulls it when it changes in SCM -or- you manually push the pot file to TX.

We've been using the "watch the pot file in git" option. Thus whenever we commit a new version of the pot file all developers and TX get it simultaneously (well sort of).

If we do the manual push method the maintainer has to *both* commit to git *and* push to TX, so the former seems less error prone and more automated.

The idea was we would have a string freeze prior to release and/or periodic intervals during branch development to update the pot. But we haven't been good about hitting these. However, note a manual push suffers from the same "somebody has to do it at the right moment" problem.

If Transifex is not wired to the pot, we could even go as far as
removing it from SCM entirely -- it's entirely generated, and rebuilding
it takes less than a second.
We'd just have to update Transifex manually.

It currently is wired to the pot. You make a valid point about currently not needing to maintain the pot in SCM. When we first set up translations we weren't using TX so having the pot file in SCM was a necessity.

Personally I don't trust TX's data storage and I think there is value in having each pot we push to TX be recoverable from our SCM. When things blow up (and they do) it's really nice to be able to reassemble the pieces or at lease follow the trail of how things changed. In the past I've had to answer questions like "How the heck did this string get into this po file?" Such questions can only be answered if we have the pot file we gave the translator. TX doesn't maintain it so we have to (or at least I think there is value in it).

Perhaps you can read between the lines and detect I don't view TX as the epitome of stability and robustness. It's still young and they are still adding features and changing how it works (kinda like IPA :-)

Oh, one thing I'll ask about: the Makefile is not automatically rebuilt
when I change Makefile.in, so every time I run an autogen invocation I
found in the main Makefile. Is there an easier way to do this?

Ugh ... autotools :-(

The Makefile is generated via configure and I thought autoregen had the smarts to detect the dependencies. I too noticed I had to manually re-run configure. Are we running autoregen? If so and it's not working I don't have an answer, sorry.

John Dennis <jden...@redhat.com>

Looking to carve out IT costs?

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