Hi Christophe, I uploaded both subjects that I showed the snapshots for yesterday into the FS FTP drop site. (Do you have access to that?)
cheers, -MH -- Michael Harms, Ph.D. ----------------------------------------------------------- Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders Washington University School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 660 South Euclid Ave. Tel: 314-747-6173 St. Louis, MO 63110 Email: [email protected] On 8/7/14 4:03 PM, "Christophe Destrieux" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Michael >the limen insula explanation sounds ok, even if it's extension on the >medial surface seem really large. would you have a snapshot to look on >the volume to which structure this label anatomically corresponds to ? >Also did you had a look to the results of the insula aparc with the 2009a >atlas? >cd > >-- >Christophe Destrieux, > >Directeur du Département Communication et Multimédia >http://med.univ-tours.fr/M0S01/0/fiche___defaultstructureksup/&RH=12006511 >59612 > >Unité « Imagerie et Cerveau » UMRS INSERM U930, Université François >Rabelais de Tours >http://www.u930.tours.inserm.fr/ > >Service de Neurochirurgie >et Laboratoire d'Anatomie - Faculté de Médecine - 10 Bd Tonnellé >37032 Tours - France >tel (33) 2 47 36 61 36 - fax (33) 2 47 36 62 07 > > >----- Mail original ----- >De: "Michael Harms" <[email protected]> >À: "Freesurfer support list" <[email protected]> >Cc: "Ron KILLIANY" <[email protected]> >Envoyé: Jeudi 7 Août 2014 22:18:49 >Objet: Re: [Freesurfer] insula on medial surface > > >I'm not itching to re-process this data so I like that explanation as >well. I think my main concern is that that bit of insula label seems >somewhat arbitrary and inconsistent, in that some subjects have this bit >of medial tissue labelled as insula, whereas others don't. (Even within >the same subject, it isn't consistent between the two hemispheres). > >I guess it is just a matter of the sulcal variability and atlas labeling >resulting in variability in that particular region. Presumably, Ron must >have labelled that bit of tissue as "insula" in some subjects, but not >others?? > >Ron: It would be great to hear what kind of "rule" you applied when >labeling the individual subjects in the atlas in that particular region >when deciding whether it should be considered insula or medial/lateral >orbitofrontal. > >thanks, >-MH > >-- >Michael Harms, Ph.D. > >----------------------------------------------------------- >Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders >Washington University School of Medicine >Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 >660 South Euclid Ave. Tel: 314-747-6173 >St. Louis, MO 63110 Email: [email protected] > > > > >On 8/7/14 2:52 PM, "Bruce Fischl" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>wow, I like that answer much more than "it's a bug"! Can we go with >>Paul's explanation? >> >> >>Bruce >> >>On Thu, 7 Aug 2014, Paul Beach wrote: >> >>> I asked a neuroanatomist and insula expert on my campus about this a >>>while >>> back and this was his response: >>> "This is the region of the "limen insulae" that you will remember Dr. >>>Heimer >>> referring to often in the brain dissection course. The insula is >>>defined as >>> cortex which is covered by a lid of other cortical lobes, frontal, >>>parietal >>> and temporal. They all fold over except at the inferior frontal end >>>where a >>> little bit of the surface of otherwise insular cortex is not covered, >>>and >>> this little corner peeks out. This is the limeninsula which neighbors >>>the >>> olfactory cortex on the inferior surface of the frontal lobe and the >>>medial >>> surface of the temporal lobe, and is olfactory cortex itself. Since it >>>is >>> not covered over, it technically might not be considered really >>>"insular" >>> but it is obviously in continuity with, and not separated by any kind >>>of >>> sulcus or other landmark, from the rest of the insular covered cortex. >>>So we >>> are left with no secure boundary line between insular cortex and >>>inferior >>> frontal and medial temporal cortex in this corner. It looks like >>>Freesurfer >>> has decided to call it all insular, and with good functional reasons." >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Bruce Fischl >>><[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> Hi Mike >>> >>> I'm not sure - I think the insula was an additional label that >>> Ron Killiany added. I'll cc Ron to see if he has any insight. It >>> certainly looks too medial to me. >>> >>> I would also check on the white surface just to make sure that >>> it's not a quirk of the inflation. If the aseg looks right we >>> could certainly put together some simple auto-editing to correct >>> this kind of thing >>> >>> cheers >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2014, Harms, Michael wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> An astute RA, while reviewing the aparc+aseg.mgz of brains >>> processed with FS >>> 5.3, noticed a fair number of instances, where the insula >>> label "wraps >>> around" pretty medially, where she was expecting to see >>> orbitofrontal as the >>> label. See attached jpg's for two examples shown on the >>> inflated surface. >>> Since this is fairly common, I'm assuming that this isn't >>> anything to be >>> concerned about, but just wanted to confirm. >>> >>> Has this always been the behavior of the insula label, and >>> we just didn't >>> notice it previously? >>> >>> thanks, >>> -MH >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Harms, Ph.D. >>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders >>> Washington University School of Medicine >>> Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 >>> 660 South Euclid Ave. Tel: 314-747-6173 >>> St. Louis, MO 63110 Email: [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________________________________________________ >>>_ >>>__ >>> _ >>> >>> >>> The materials in this message are private and may contain >>> Protected >>> Healthcare Information or other information of a sensitive >>> nature. If you >>> are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized >>> use, >>> disclosure, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on >>> the contents >>> of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received >>> this email >>> in error, please immediately notify the sender via telephone or >>> return mail. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Freesurfer mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer >>> >>> >>> The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom >>> it is >>> addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the >>> e-mail >>> contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance >>> HelpLine at >>> http://www.partners.org/complianceline . 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