well, 'played through' the DNA, more likely, in case you'd want to quote me... :) I think it's more likely that the DNA serves as a stock list through which the cell's feedback loops go 'shopping', not an instruction set the cell compelled to follow.
Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 680 Ft. Washington Ave NY NY 10040 tel: 212-795-4844 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] explorations: www.synapse9.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:57 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > I think you hit nail on the head....causation is > intracellular...it is all encoded in the DNA re: The Selfish > Gene by Dawkins. > > When I try to model the endocrine system I look at all the > feedback loops and ask where is the setpoint (chicken or egg > question). Where and how is the setpoint established and > what are the significant actors that alter the setpoint. I > alway seem to return to the blueprint / DNA and my models > attempt to cross temporal and spatial scales. I recently > worked on Intracranial Pressure modeling with bioengineers > who approached that question as engineers. They insisted on > solving the problem with a "gain" control that had no basis > in the reality of the physiological system. I lost out and > they got published (sour grapes). > > Maybe beginning with the genome and then build model > structure from the known genomic-proteomic-cell signalling > architecture followed by "in silico" experiments that > sensitivity test individual and combinatorial stimuli. This > is why I have stopped some of the modeling that I am doing > and am taking a look at semantic networks ("ontologies"). I > am thinking that a modeling effort of a particular > physiological question must begin with building a > knowledge-based structural network of fine grain. From there > build dynamic models of coarser grain or examine behavior by > adding nodal connections sequentially. Perhaps this is done > at the research institution/university level, but I am > somewhat out of touch with that world in that I work in a > rather isolated environment without funding. That could be a > lifetime of work. I wouldn't know how to approach this with > agents. I use ODE's in continous event modeling and some > discrete event modeling. > > Start with the stem cell genome and simulate changes in its > expression during development? I would think that this is > the Holy Grail for some. Include me when you look for funding! > > Lou > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Louis Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:16 PM > Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > You and Jochen both list some of the general advantages of an > adaptive developmental strategy in forming the neurosystem. > The body seems to be full of things built that way, by > exploratory systems reinforced by feedbacks that remain > resilient by lots of redundancy and other ways you > point out. The rub with all that kind of stuff is that to > make it work > the causation has to come from inside the cells. How the > heck can you > impose a design that way? I still say, from a traditional > design-build model it makes no sense at all. > > > Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 680 Ft. Washington Ave > NY NY 10040 > tel: 212-795-4844 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > explorations: www.synapse9.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Louis Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:32 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > > Group > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > > > > At birth [and before], one neuron does not "know" which > other neuron > > to which it should make "contact." It is from internal and > external > > stimuli from which specific contacts are selected. The > ability of the > > developed brain to "normally" react to an external stimuli > comes from > > an architecture that has been created during development stages. > > A child raised chained and in a closet for 18 years will > > react differently, physically and emotionally, to external > > stimuli as compared to a child that has been going to school. > > Most if not all of the connections made during development > > are permanent. > > > > Synapses allows for this flexibility of "choosing" > connections during > > development rather than being hardwired at the get go. > > > > IMHO > > Lou > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Phil Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:49 AM > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > > > > Yes, the connection at synapses does seem to be a special > case of how > > cells are connected generally, through the blood stream or other > > medium of exchange. That relationship, cells creating a > larger system > > by 'floating messages in a bottle' to each other is this same > > extremely improbable means of running things that nature uses and > > seems completely illogical from a machine design point of > view. When > > cells interact with each other they just dump stuff in the stream > > and grab stuff from the stream (or have it sucked out of them > > and pushed into them), but there's actually no connection > > between the cells. > > > > > > Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > 680 Ft. Washington Ave > > NY NY 10040 > > tel: 212-795-4844 > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > explorations: www.synapse9.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > Behalf Of Jochen Fromm > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:01 AM > > > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaps exists because neurons are not only the building > block of the > > > brain and the neural system, they are also cells, the basic > > building > > > block of any organic lifeform. Cells existed long before > any neural > > > system (in eukaroytic and prokaryotic form). To connect > neurons by > > > synapses has the additional advantage of high flexibility and > > > adaptivity by providing countless possible combinations that are > > > modifiable during the "runtime" of the system, and by > offering the > > > possibility of modulation at the gaps. > > > > > > Emotions in general have indeed a strong correlation to > modulation, > > > they seem to be a kind of archaic control system which evaluates > > > situations and controls the behavior (damping undesirable > behavior > > > while amplifying desirable actions). They signal the state of the > > > system and control it at the same time - with the help of > the reward > > > system, neural modulators and reinforcment learning. It is no > > > accident that pleasant stimuli are commonly associated with > > > reinforcing neural modulators as dopamine. > > > > > > -J. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Russell Standish > > > Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 4:02 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > > > Group > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > > > > My guess is that the "gaps" or synapses, have a lot to do > with fine > > > tuning the amount of damping in the brain's dynamical > function. It > > > appears that brains need to operate near the "edge of > > chaos", and some > > > global control system fine tuning this would be desirable. > > > > > > This probably explains the evolution of emotions. > > > > > > Phil Husband's group in Sussex have done a fair bit of work with > > > "GasNets", which is inspired by the design, to make > > effective robotic > > > controllers. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, > > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
