Glen E. P. Ropella wrote: > You're saying that the members of churches, > neighborhood watch groups, schools, etc. purposefully engage in the > attempt to encourage (impose, coax, coerce, etc.) others around them to > act and think like them. This social engineering is perfectly akin to > an individual engineering her physical environment to make her use of > resources more efficient. > > If that's what you're saying, then I disagree. I don't disagree that > this is the _effect_ of these groups. I disagree that they do it > _purposefully_... i.e. they don't intend to do it. > Option 1 is that a recipient can't understand a concern or is unable to act on a request for change from a signaler Option 2 is that a recipient understands the concern but has a different value system from the signaler that renders it moot
If the effect of their behavior is damaging in some important way to the signaler, then it doesn't really matter what the intent is. The signaler's options are to displace the recipient from the environment or move themselves. > The set-up you presented was sub-group neutral. You said: "Discussants > who might not even be able to tolerate one another in person can find > common ground." And normal people can and usually _do_ look for and > discover common ground within 5 minutes of conversation. > > Only a pathological person cannot find common ground within the span of > a normal conversation. And this is regardless of what peer group is > under consideration. > Fair enough. One point is that people vary on many dimensions, and in my view, the more the better. There's no shortage of people. My example is indeed sub-group neutral and was to illustrate that two people having many dimensions of incompatibility could still communicate through abstractions, which in my view, this is a good thing to facilitate and encourage. Another separate view is that groups can be oppressive to the individual, and that the individual may well not be at fault when so oppressed. My view is that the world does not fall apart when people do their own thing. The forces that create groups are much stronger than the forces that ensure individuality. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
