...maybe a definition that to go with Yaneer's riddle, and that fits with all, is that any individual thing is complex beyond measure and any explanations are all comparatively very simple, differing among them only by whether they work or not.
Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 680 Ft. Washington Ave NY NY 10040 tel: 212-795-4844 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] explorations: www.synapse9.com <http://www.synapse9.com/> -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikhail Gorelkin Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:31 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex It seems I found a more fundamental definition: So, if you want to characterize the complexity of an object, think about how much you would have to write in order to describe it. Would it take a sentence, a paragraph, a few pages, a book, or many books? Count the number of characters in the description. This is complexity. --Yaneer Bar-Yam Making things works. Solving complex problems in a complex world, p. 54. So, linear systems have simpler and shorter descriptions than non-linear ones. And the same is true for centralized vs. decentralized systems Any thoughts? --Mikhail ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo CV <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee <mailto:[email protected]> Group Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex To decide if a phenomena is complex maybe It's necessary to identify patterns of self organization in the "behavior" of the small units of individual that conform the population of interest. Maybe It's necesary to check the lack of centralized control and the existence of some stable states. I think these three features are the diagnostic features of complexity. I guess.... I don't know what Hayes says but I'll think about these three features for health insurance, medicare, Social Security and Pensions in my country... (in fact is not mine, belongs to the richest and the multinationals.... anyhow). Regards Alfredo CV health insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the uninsured Mikhail Gorelkin wrote: +1: I guess that complexity cannot be expressed adequately even in a term of computability. ? --Mikhail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikhail Gorelkin" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex Just two thoughts: 1) it seems that complexity is a more fundamental category than linearity / non-linearity, which are parts of a sophisticated ***formal*** system; 2) I assume there are types of complexity (and, therefore, many - I mean really many - types) that cannot be expressed in any formal system (beyond linearity / non-linearity). Something like Gödel's theorem. ? --Mikhail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thompson" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex Alfredo, Good question. In fact, the question of the day, for the Hayes talk. Mysterious non linear effects in Hayes data leading to the conclusion good hearted efforts in one direction lead to the opposite result. I guess "mysterious non-linearity" is a good clue that the phenomenon is complex. Nick . Message: 1 Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:12:09 -0500 From: Alfredo CV <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] **today ** Lecture Wed Sep 12 12:30p: Jim Hayes - Hedging Complex and Chaotic Private Health Insurance Markets and the Uninsured To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> Message-ID: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Of course it?s impossible to me to know details of the speeches you usually have. In the distance I suppose that the first purpose of each one of these speeches is to know and evaluate a broad type of cases where complexity is used to understand phenomena. I wonder what makes some phenomena suitable to be studied with a "complex" approach. What must somebody take in consideration to decide that is studying a complex phenomena? Regards, Alfredo CV ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org _____ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org _____ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
