Günther,

I have admitted my ignorance of your domain: a philosophy of science.
Apparently, this knowledge is required in FRIAM discussions. Perhaps there
is a path between the philosophy behind of, and the science I use in my
complexity research.

A hint of this path is illustrated in Robert Bishop and Harald Altspacher's
"Contextual Emergence in the Description of Properties".

http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00002934/

Among other issues of description, they state:

"The description of properties at a particular level of description
(including its laws) offers both necessary and sufficient conditions to
rigorously derive the description of properties at a higher level. This is
the strictest possible form of reduction. As mentioned above, it was most
popular under the influence of positivist thinking in the mid-20th century."

The positivist paradigm is inadequate in my opinion.

Models can be represented by hybrids of thermodynamic network graphs and
neural networks.

The point I tried to make in Gödel is that models that are incomplete may be
proven, what I call true in some sense is actually more not-false, and
models that are unproven may be true.  Models are superpositions of other
models that may be refuted as demonstrably false and removed from the
superposition, otherwise allowed to remain.  Therefore, models exhibit
uncertainty.  Axioms are not models, and models cannot represent axioms.  If
a model is complete, the ensembles of entangled paths through the
superposition will collapse to a trajectory.  In my domain, a model may be
considered in two types of equilibrium, both where no energy is exchanged
with the context.  1) A cold dark model, thermodynamically just above 0 K
where no thermodynamic coupling exists between elements - thus entropy is
not generated), and 2) a dark model where the model is at thermodynamic
equilibrium with its environmental context, but exchanges internal and
external couplings. A dark model does generate entropy at its minimal level
according to various ambient temperatures.

The upshot of the general description above is that perturbations of the
model can realize non-analytical solutions (of which there may be infinitely
many) - which are impossible with, and completely different than, solving a
problem analytically.

Re: completeness your propositional calculus, I am ignorant of the concept.

Ken



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Günther Greindl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 12:05 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Friday Morning Applied 
> Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Confessions of a Mathemechanic.
> 
> Ken,
> 
> > proven as true in a formal axiomatic system.  Thus, "truth" is an 
> > underdetermined state when it comes to the application of enumerable
> 
> It is always important to say here that "truth" in respect to 
> Gödel is a mathematical notion (relationship structure/model 
> and formal system), it is often wrongly invoked in 
> philosophical discussion ("Gödel said there can be no truth 
> .. therefor crazy idea etc")
> 
> 
> > Gödel's second theorem states that a formal axiomatic system is 
> > complete if and only if it is inconsistent.
> 
> There are perfectly complete and and consistent axiomatic systems. 
> (propositional calculus); heck, even the mega-expressive 
> first order logic (see the completeness theorem). 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Completeness_theorem
> 
> Incompleteness arises when you introduce arithmetic (robinson 
> arithmetic suffices, presburger arithmetic not; in short: you 
> need addition and multiplication in your arithmetic -> with 
> this you can construct gödel numbers, define recursion, and 
> get your (first) incompleteness theorem, from which second 
> follows easily.
> 
> Cheers,
> Günther
> 
> --
> Günther Greindl
> Department of Philosophy of Science
> University of Vienna
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/
> Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal/


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