I agree here again the possibility of ridicule and being willing to be considered a fool are involved in original insight (creativity). In fact even in this friam forum I have felt a kind of ridicule (you dont know anything about mathematics) when I am making a point or something similar and being encouraged to shut up and raising laughter (at me not with me). I am somewhat grizzled from experience so I expect this from time to time. But why are those who do this doing it? What is gained? I think being able to use mathematical symbology on the friam would be wonderful but not if the syntax is not pliable to speak in new ways. And yes I invent constantly in every language I am able to.
Think of people whose jobs and families well being depend on being well thought of by others. How much ridicule can they stand. Not much. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orlando Leibovitz Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 10:31 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Brain and Creativity 2 Orlando here, In addition to intelligence I think there are other personality traits involved in original insight (creativity). It seems to me one must accept the possibility of ridicule and be willing to be considered a fool. Pursuit of personal expression at all cost seems to be essential. In this regard I am quoting Martha Graham to Agnes De Mille. Her words, for me, touch on artistic creativity. Or at least partially explain what enables it. I think they apply to scientific creativity but I'm not sure. MARTHA GRAHAM TO AGNES DE MILLE There is a vitality, a life force, a quickening that is translated through you into action and because there is only one of you in all time, this expression is unique. And if you block it, it will never exist through any other medium and will be lost. The world will not have it. It is not your business to determine how good it is nor how valuable it is nor how it compares with other expressions. It is your business to keep it yours clearly and directly, to keep the channel open. You do not even have to believe in yourself or your work. You have to keep open and aware directly to the urges that motivate you. Keep the channel open. No artist is pleased. There is no satisfaction whatever at any time. There is only a queer, divine dissatisfaction, a blessed unrest that keeps us marching and makes us more alive. It may be so that insights are "historically situated" and the "time is just ripe" and if it is not this person it will be another but does this explain why Einstein perceived E=MC2 and not Poincare'. The Yudowsky post is wonderful. O Carl Tollander wrote: Not sure that the Cosmic Pez Dispenser of Picassos would have produced a similar Guernica painting five years later. Insights are historically situated, as you say. Any of these players, in a different milieu or time would have different insights, but insights they would have. This doesn't say anything about mapping propensity to insight to some average relative "intelligence" (as if it were measurable by one scalar or located in one place). Even the village idiot has a good day now and then; it's just that the crowd (or what we call "The Crowd") hasn't engineered itself to listen. The argument that insights will happen anyway in effect says it doesn't have to. C. Günther Greindl wrote: Hi, Orlando here, What is it that allows Newton or Einstein or Picasso to see something essential that no one has seen or understood before? I guess the time is just ripe (viz.: enough knowledge has accumulated and is lying around for a new synthesis) at certain moments for intelligent guys to have insights. If it hadn't been Einstein or Newton, then it would have been another bright person 5 years later. The intelligence of these people in relation to other people is usually overrated. See this lovely post by Eli Yudkowsky on OB about Einstein, the village idiot, and _real_ superintelligences: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/my-childhood-ro.html Cheers, Günther ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- Orlando Leibovitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.orlandoleibovitz.com Studio Telephone: 505-820-6183
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
