Have you seen all those commercials for Windows 7?  Microsoft's "new"
operating system?

It isn't new at all.  Just the same old ones and zeros.

-Ted

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]> wrote:

> This seems to me to be asking a version of the question whether one can
> ever think something for which one does not already have a word--i.e.,
> whether one's language determines and limits one's possible thoughts.
>
> I think that's wrong.  A simple argument would be that if it were true then
> we would never have thought anything since we evolved from single cell
> organisms that had no language.
>
> I tend to agree with Nick that most if not all of our new thoughts are
> combinations and mutations of existing thoughts. But that seems to be good
> enough.
>
> Of course single celled organisms didn't have thoughts either. But how
> thought started is another question. I don't think it started with abstract
> concepts. How did we (animals) first manage to convert perceptions into
> concepts that could be stored and manipulated?  To tell that story clearly
> would be a very nice bit of science. But it certainly happened.
>
> -- Russ A
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Nicholas Thompson <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>  All,
>>
>> Over the years I can remember many animated conversations among
>> psychologists about whether it is possible to see something new, since there
>> is no way for the cognitive machinery to recognize something for which it
>> does not already have a template.  Often cited in those discussions was the
>> reported experience of people who had congenital cateracts removed and could
>> not, for a time, see anything.
>>
>> the answer to this cocktail party conundrum has always seemed to me an
>> emphatic YES and NO.   No we cannot see anything entirely new, however
>> nothing that we encounter is ever entirely new.  so, for instance, let it be
>> the case that you had never heard of unicorns, never seen an illustration of
>> a unicorn, etc, and a unicorn were to trot into the St. Johns Cafe
>> tomorrow.  Would you see it?  Well, if you knew about horses and narwhales,
>> I would say yes, because while you would not immediately see a unicorn you
>> would see a horse with a narwale tusk in the middle of its forehead.
>>
>> Now, it seems to me that Crutchfield's essay (in the Emergence book, for
>> those of you who have it) is asking the scientific version of that
>> question.
>> Do we actually ever discover anything new.  His explicit answer, in the
>> last paragraph of the essay, would seem to be "yes", but the argument seems
>> in many places to lead in the oppsite direction.  Discovery,  he seems to
>> argue, consists of shifting from one form of computation to another where
>> forms of computation are defined by a short list of machine-types.
>>
>> Has anybody out there read the article and have an opinion on this
>> matter?
>>
>> Popper's falsificationism would seem to imply that scientists never
>> DISCOVER anything new;  they IMAGINE new things, and then, having imagined
>> them,  find them.  Bold Conjectures, he called it.   Seems to go along with
>> Kubie's idea of the preconscious as a place where pieces of experience get
>> scrambled into new combinations.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
>> Clark University ([email protected])
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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