As noted below, Thurston’s interesting paper states that: 

“Mathematics AS WE PRACTICE IT, is much more formally complete and precise than 
other sciences, but it is much less formally complete and precise for its 
content than computer programs.”

If it were required that mathematical proofs be written in full formality, then 
some of them would be unreadable. Verifying a typical published proof might be 
similar to proving the correctness of a large computer program. Even worse, the 
basic ideas of the proof would no longer be visible. As Thurston points out, 
the basic ideas are what mathematicians actually work with in practice.  

Consider the theory of integrating Cos^n (kx) (for n a positive integer) as 
taught in a calculus class. Briefly, if n is odd, we can integrate this 
function by rewriting all but one factor of Cos(kx) in terms of Sin(kx) (using 
Cos^2(kx)=1-Sin^2(kx)) then making the substitution U = Sin(kx). If n is even, 
we can use a trigonometric identity to reduce the problem to integrating 
smaller powers of Cos(kx). [The identity is Cos^2(kx)=(1+Cos(2kx))/2.] Thus, we 
can reduce the problem to finding integrals of smaller and smaller even powers 
of Cos (kx) until we get to the second or first power, Cos^2(kx) or Cos(kx),  
both of which can readily be integrated. 

The above argument would be clear to mathematicians, and extremely good 
calculus students, and would enable them to compute certain integrals. Calculus 
students who are good, but not extremely good, would generally need to see a 
few examples before the process becomes clear. Weaker students would need to 
see more examples –maybe a lot more. Theoretically, the argument in the above 
paragraph would be an acceptable proof that, for example, the integral of 
Cos^n(kx) can always be carried out and has a certain form.  Although the 
argument is informal and sketchy, it does give the main ideas, which is enough 
for mathematicians to convince themselves that the method is correct.  A 
completely formal version of the argument would be like constructing a program 
to do the integration, then verifying that the program works. The main ideas 
would be lost. 
 
--John

________________________________________
From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Nicholas Thompson [[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A little Proof, Dr Thurston! It aint Elementary!

Robert,

thanks for the additional quotations.

However, you made a slip of the fingers when you keyed in one of the passages.  
To head off needless controversy, I key it in correctly below.  The capitalized 
word is where the slipup occured.

"Mathematics as we practice it is much MORE formally complete and precise than 
other sciences, but it is much less formally complete and precise for its 
content than computer programs."
Easy slip to make because of the structure of the sentence.

n


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>)
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]




----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus G. Daniels<mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: 12/15/2009 1:09:23 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A little Proof, Dr Thurston! It aint Elementary!

On 12/15/09 12:27 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
I think this is him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thurston
The essay that Russ mentioned only mentions programming in passing..  He 
doesn't say anything about it relative to `intellectual challenge', but he does 
talk a lot about what is the deep value of his enterprise.   The message is in 
some sense that the rigor is not the end, it's the means.  Some quotes:

"When one considers how hard it is to write a computer program even approaching 
the intellectual scope of a good mathematical paper, and how much greater time 
and effort have been put into it to make it "almost" formally correct, it is 
preposterous to claim that mathematics as we practice it is anywhere near 
formally correct.

Mathematics as we practice it is much less formally complete and precise than 
other scienc es, but it is much less formally complete and precise for its 
content than computer programs.  The difference has to do not just with the 
amount of effort:  the kind of effort is qualitatively different.  In large 
computer programs, a tremendous proportion of effort must be spent on myriad 
compatibility issues:  making sure that all of the definitions are consistent, 
developing "good" data structures that have useful but not cumbersome 
generality, deciding on the "right" generality for functions, etc.  The 
proportion of effort spent on the working part of a large program, as 
distinguished from the bookkeeping part, is surprisingly small.  Because of the 
compatibility issues that almost inevitably escalate out of hand because the 
"right" definitions changes as generality and functionality are added, computer 
programs usually need to be rewritten frequently, often from scratch."

and

"The standard of correctness and completenes s necessary to get a computer 
program to work at all is a couple orders of magnitude higher than the 
mathematical community's standard of valid proofs.  Nonetheless, large computer 
programs, even when they have been very carefully written and very carefully 
tested, always seem to have bugs."

..and then he goes on to talk about how mathematics lacks a holistic sort of 
factoring process like goes on with large [evolving] programs.  And many other 
interesting, reasonable remarks.

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