I don't personally think Doug's comments were all that cranky, but then I've been on this list for a long time - it seems to me more like he was playing Devil's Advocate. But to John's sincere question, I also wonder what generally happens to uninsured people who come to a hospital emergency room - I've always been fortunate enough to have health insurance in the USA. Just from a "faith in my fellow man" perspective, I hope that those with truly life-threatening injuries are almost universally treated, at least until the emergency has passed. But after such emergency treatment, I wonder what happens. Or similarly, what happens to those who come in with non-life-threatening conditions - the "urban legend" is that they are treated and the hospitals suffer terribly by being so over-burdened; I don't know if that is true or not.
I guess I come down on the side that says access to at least basic health care should be a basic human (oh no, he's going to say it!) *right*. Now, I don't believe we are born with some nebulous, touchy-feely notion of rights as in right vs. wrong, but I do think it behooves a society that wants to succeed to *create* basic rights that it is willing to fight to provide. Most civilized countries in the world at least pay lip service to human rights, and most financially well-off countries consider medical care to be such a human right - if not for the moraility of it (another hard to defend concept perched on a slippery slope), then for the sheer economics of it: outside the USA, it seems pretty well agreed that providing at least a minimal government run health care system is more efficient than privately run systems. Being even more of a curmudgeon than Doug (IMHO), I wonder what would happen to people without insurance if they were to show up at wealthy private hospitals, collapse on the floor, and proclaim that they are too sick to leave. See if the administrators would call the police to forcibly remove these people from their sick beds. Maybe it would at least draw some media attention. Maybe they could even have a tea party while there... ;; Gary On Feb 16, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote: > Again, apologies to all for my cranky outburst yesterday. > > I suppose I teed off on the broad nature of the question: > > "...what happens if an uninsured person suddenly needs massive medical > treatment to avoid death or crippling consequences...." > > Given that out the the 350 million US population there are many millions of > people who fit that definition, there are numerous answers to the question. > There is no single policy that defines how to handle a sick, uninsured > person. One of but many of the huge gaping flaws in our society. Which > naturally is a reflection on but one of the huge gaping flaws in our own > collective character. > > --Doug > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:49 AM, John Kennison <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thanks Owen and Eric for giving me a simple answer to my simple question. > Thanks also to Doug for the reassuring private email he sent me. I do have a > question for Doug: I don't see how the facts that you list pertain to my > question of how uninsured people are treated when they suddenly need medical > help. The facts that lots of people get poor health care, or even that the > question is naive don't really give me the information I asked for. > > > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Owen > Densmore [[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:36 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Health care [was Sources of Innovation] > > On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:15 AM, John Kennison wrote: > > I was thinking about what Eric said and realized that I don't know > > what happens if an uninsured person suddenly needs massive medical > > treatment to avoid death or crippling consequences. If he can't pay, > > do we just let him suffer the consequences? At this point, I just > > want to find out what the current practice is. The question of what > > we should do is another matter. > > I believe all emergency rooms are required to provide care, whether > the person is insured or not. I've been in the emergency room every > year with family members needing care and they always are clear that > payment and/or insurance is not mandatory. > > Also, NM, and most states, provide insurance for those who cannot > afford it. I forget the name it goes under, but my son Gil is insured > with it. > > -- Owen > > > ============================================================ > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
