Well said, Grant. And there's also the small matter of all 70,000+ Android apps being written in Java, with another 2,500 shipping weekly.
cjf Christopher J. Feola President, nextPression Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/cjfeola From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Grant Holland Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:41 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Edward Angel Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Query about rating agencies/groups Ed, Actually, I'd beg to differ with you on that issue.... I just spent the last ten years building large scale commercial systems for major F500 companies using enterprise Java. A good example is a major credit card processing services company. We replaced their IBM mainframe COBOL/CICS credit card processing application - which would no longer scale to the number of transactions they need to do (2 billion/mo) - with a custom-built enterprise Java application that we architected, designed and built over a two-year period. My group did scores of like projects over the past decade. :-P I do admit that the academic world may have perceived Java as a reasonably good teaching language. But I believe that modern versions of Java typically out-performs C++ on a number of industry benchmarks (...ask me how and why); and with it's built-in networking and WORA architecture, I believe that Java still enjoys major market penetration. I agree with you that many of the dynamic languages (Ruby, etc.) are replacing Java for the purpose of building Web GUI front-ends for for these server-side enterprise apps. But Java truly shines on the server side anyway - where it is still adopted by business. For example, both IBM and Oracle see Java as chiefly a server-side platform, have been committed to that posture for years, and continue to do so. For example, Oracle just bought Sun Microsystems, in part because it wanted to protect its investment in server-side Java. Regards, Grant Grant Edward Angel wrote: I'd worry about about how to use that number. The prevailing view in both academic departments and industry is that Java is on its way out. For the kinds of things that Java is good at, scripting languages have advanced so much that they are replacing Java. For large scale applications, industry never used Java. It's a major problem for schools that have their whole curriculum in Java. When their students graduate they find the job opportunities can be very limited if they don't have experience with other languages like C++. For our students that are not CS majors but need to know some programming, the demand ranges from C++ and Matlab for engineering majors to python for the animation industry with a lot movement towards java script. It's interesting that all the feedback I get from industry is that they (like us academics) hate C++ but they have yet to find a suitable replacement for large scale programming jobs such as developing and maintaining a game engine. Ed __________ Ed Angel Chair, Board of Directors, Santa Fe Complex Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab) Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico 1017 Sierra Pinon Santa Fe, NM 87501 505-984-0136 (home) [email protected] 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel <http://www.cs.unm.edu/%7Eangel> http://artslab.unm.edu <http://artslab.unm.edu/> http://sfcomplex.org On Jul 28, 2010, at 1:52 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote: ACM Technotes reported today: Java/J2EE is the programming and developing skill in most demand with more than 14,000 open job positions nationally, according to a July report from IT job board Dice. -- rec -- On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Grant Holland <[email protected]> wrote: Dave, What is your opinion about certification in the Java world at this point? Grant Prof David West wrote: Pamela, my replies do not seem to get posted to the list, so I included your direct address. There is no rating or accrediting body for certifications. The ACM/IEEE could and perhaps should do this, but they have a conflict of interest in that they offer their own set of certifications. You are absolutely correct that the quality of the programs varies significantly - some vendor certifications, like Cisco's, have a very good reputation and they also certify trainers. Others, like Scrum Master are hideous jokes (I am a "Certified Scrum Master). Microsoft Certs are in the middle, good except when the right answer conflicts with Microsofts answer in which case right loses to might. A lot of universities, especially two-year schools offer courses that are, in effect, certification test preparation. If you let me know what certifications you are most interested in, I might be able to provide some direction. dave west On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:00 -0600, "Pamela McCorduck" <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: Does there exist a rating agency or group that rates IT certification programs the way several such groups exist for colleges and universities? My son-in-law wishes to upgrade his skills, but we're very concerned that some of the programs are nothing but fancy scams. Thanks, Pamela "God keep me from ever completing anything. This whole book is but a draft--nay, but the draft of a draft. Oh, Time, Strength, Cash, and Patience!" Melville, "Moby Dick" ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org <http://www.friam.org/> ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org <http://www.friam.org/> -- Grant Holland VP, Product Development and Software Engineering NuTech Solutions 404.427.4759 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org <http://www.friam.org/> ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org _____ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- Grant Holland VP, Product Development and Software Engineering NuTech Solutions 404.427.4759
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
