Pamela, Banal IS evil. Hmm! Or is it the other way around.
Nick -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:13 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil] I'd like to take exception to a few things Jochen says. I am on Facebook for professional reasons (sigh--publishers take this very seriously, even if the rest of us can't). I currently have a quite doctored picture up of me (Doug can attest) and other friends have shots of their dogs, or Richard Wagner, instead of themselves. We do it for fun, because we can. No requirement to have a passport picture up. Facebook knows very little about me that can't be got easily from "Who's Who" or other sources. I want it that way. That said, I can't help comparing it to another virtual community I've belonged to for more than twenty years. It's the WELL, founded by Stewart Brand and his friends, and at first consisting of a bunch of Deadheads and other former hippies. What the WELL has permitted over the years is substantive conversations--banter too, but substantive conversations--where you begin to detect real personalities with real interests, rounded and appealing (or appalling, as the case might be). This membership has led from virtual friendships to genuine friendships--I'll go to the theater this afternoon with one such friend; another such is coming to NYC next week for a visit; etc., etc. Facebook's unwieldy size and lack of discrimination among "friends" (with that I agree completely) is unlikely to allow this to happen, especially since the technology is set up for soundbites, not authentic conversations. It's not evil, but it's banal. Pamela On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote: > If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you > accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you > accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, > simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then > you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to > part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least > you don't die. > > Pieter > > On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote: >> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious. >> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting >> questions: >> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so >> successful? >> When does a company become evil? >> >> Social media and social networks are >> a hot trend, maybe because people feel increasingly isolated in a >> digital and urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving": >> "The deepest need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave >> the prison of his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need. >> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari >> connects you to readers with similar interests. >> Facebook is special. It claims to connect you to the people you >> already know. >> The problem is: >> >> a) You probably have multiple circles of friends, and these friends >> belong to different >> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc. >> Facebook allows you only to have one >> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity >> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the >> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical >> appearance. >> If you are not good looking or if you have no friends, like the shy >> nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then Facebook classifies you >> as a loser. It denies you to be what you want to be, but the >> declaration of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they >> are endowed [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are >> Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." >> It does not mention the right to have a Facebook profile. >> >> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private >> data. >> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your >> privacy. Would you tell the government who your friends are, where >> you have been, what you are doing? >> Then why do you tell it to a private company? >> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at >> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to >> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating >> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company? >> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no. >> >> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: >> "We will connect you to your friends >> (if you give us your private data)". >> and reduces you to your physical appearance "We will connect you to >> your friends (if you tell us what you are doing right now and how you >> look like)" >> That's why Facebook is evil. >> >> -J. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday >> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25, >> 2010 10:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends >> >> So funny. >> >> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous? >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at >> cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at >> http://www.friam.org >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
