Dawkins was merely saying that in this huge multidimensional space,
most points represent nonviable creatures (e.g. height of 5000 meters
and mass of 0.1 gram). In a random leap from a point representing a
viable creature to any other point, probabilistically that destination
represents something that cannot live.

That said, I found Vladimyr's comments about viability to be very
interesting and of course far more detailed and concrete than Dawkins'
probabilistic metaphor.

Bruce

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Nicholas  Thompson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Suddenly can't think what the evidence would be for "most mutations are
> lethal."  Given the tremendous capacity of the developmental system to
> absorb variation and produce a common result,  how would we know.  The best
> we could know is that most visible mutations are lethal.
>
> This is a brain fart, isn't it.  Oh Dear.
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Bruce Sherwood
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 8:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [FRIAM] What evolves?
>
> I'll take a stab at Russ's question, "What's the analogous force (or other
> explanation) for void filling in evolution?"
>
> Dawkins presents what seemed to me a helpful way of seeing why mutations are
> usually lethal. He invents a multidimensional space in which a point
> represents a possible living creature, whose attributes are coordinates on
> each of the very large number of axes (e.g. length, mass, number of legs,
> etc.) He points out that this space is enormously empty, as most points
> represent creatures that are not viable. Moreover, any mutation that
> represents a big jump in this multidimensional space takes you to a point in
> that space representing a nonviable creature.
>
> Viable creatures are represented by clouds of neighboring points, surrounded
> by vast empty spaces. New species (to the extent that "species" is a
> meaningful term) to be viable will be near these clouds. If a cloud is
> densely occupied, a new species will most likely be found just outside the
> cloud, exploiting an until-now "void" but with only small changes from the
> attributes of existing creatures in this grouping.
>
> In this metaphor it seems to me that void-filling is "driven"
> essentially "entropically" -- to exploit a larger space. The analogy would
> be a gas confined in a small portion of a large empty box.
> Remove the barriers, and it looks to the observer as though the gas is
> "driven" to fill the void. But at a micro level all you see is molecules
> running around randomly, sometimes colliding with other molecules or the
> walls. According to mechanical laws, the gas could continue to occupy a
> small portion of the otherwise empty box, or return to such a configuration
> after making excursions. But there are so many more ways of arranging the
> molecules to exploit the entire space of the box that there is a crushingly
> large probability any time you look in the future of finding the box
> completely filled. In the process of this filling, it "looks" to the
> observer as though the gas is "driven" by some "force" to occupy the large
> space. But that's an illusion. Or you can I suppose define an equivalent
> "entropic force"
> doing the driving.
>
> Incidentally, when I only recently read The Origin of Species I was struck
> by how much ecology there is in the book. At one point Darwin specifically
> says that one of the largest influences driving the evolution of species is
> the other species in the environment. And the last few pages are a
> wonderfully lyrical paean to an ecological view of interacting organisms
> (his English river bank).
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> Russ Abbott russ.abbott at gmail.com
> Thu May 12 00:13:53 EDT 2011
> Previous message: [FRIAM] What evolves?
> Next message: [FRIAM] What evolves?
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Lots to
> respond to. First of all, Nick, why do you say I am discarding the
> distinction between living and non-living. I don't recall saying that.
>
> To Dave's point:
>
> By "fitness" I mean nothing more than 'void filling'   ...   There is no
> "process" anymore than there is a "process" when water in a flooding river
> 'fills voids' on the other side of the levee.
>
>
> That still leaves open the question of the scientific explanation for how
> voids are filled. Is there a physical force that produces that result? In
> the case of water going downhill, the force is gravity. What's the analogous
> force (or other explanation) for void filling in evolution?
> What's the scientific explanation for how it happens?
>
> *-- Russ Abbott*
> *_____________________________________________*
> ***  Professor, Computer Science*
> *  California State University, Los Angeles*
>
> *  Google voice: 747-*999-5105
> *  blog: *http://russabbott.blogspot.com/
>  vita:  http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
>
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