Nick --

You may also be familiar with Charles Handy's book "The Gods of Management", 
which expands the Apollonians and Dionysians to a couple of other dimensions: 
Zeus, to express the "power" cult of personality around a founder/visionary, 
and Athena, the idea of a distributed meritocracy based on creativity.

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Business/Management/?view=usa&ci=9780195096170

- Claiborne -


On Jun 21, 2011, at 14:03, "Nicholas  Thompson" <[email protected]> 
wrote:

> "our respective lenses"
> 
> You have your Apollonians and your Dionysians;  Apollonians are your
> planters, your gardeners, your planners.  They can defer pleasure because,
> for them, the future seems assured.  Dionysians are your impulsive types:
> they grab pleasure and excitement now because the future is not assured.
> There are a LOT of Dionysians in the sfComplex.  I think it's because
> advanced technology is so self-undermining and ephemeral.  Opportunities
> come fast and are lost in a wink.  Who can really plan? 
> 
> According to one complex sociobiological theory, these two personality types
> are laid down in infancy by the attachment relation.  Were the circumstances
> that surrounding your primary caregiver (usually your mom) stable enough so
> that you could form a firm attachment to her?  Or sufficiently unstable,
> that that attachment was in doubt.  If the first, you are an Apollonian; if
> the latter a Dionysian.  These two kinds of folks really cannot talk to one
> another because their assumptions about the future are so different.  
> 
> One of the most alarming features of our current political discourse in the
> united states is the way in which the modern Dionysians (libertarians, etc.)
> have tried to bridge the gap between these two personalities by asserting
> the Dionysian philosophy as a form of planning for the future.  Ayn Rand;
> objectivism.  It's kind of the reverse of the equally horrifying religion
> thing in which people without hope (who SHOULD be Dionysians) are recruited
> for Apollonian values by getting them to believe in an after-life.   Both
> versions I deplore.  They are confusions.  Corruptions of the two basic
> approaches to life, both of which make Darwinian sense in their pure form.  
> 
> This sort of email is what happens when you put Thompson beside his
> weed-filled garden and then prevent him from doing anything about it by
> busting his knee.  You probably will hear more from me in this vein. 
> 
> Ugh!
> 
> Nick 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Richard Harris
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:02 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Uncertainty Tax
> 
> I know we all have our respective lenses through which we view the world and
> that these lenses determine the explanations to which we are most receptive,
> but if Mr. Friedman is talking about an inability to switch house as a
> reason some people aren't able to take new jobs, it would seem appropriate
> to also mention that many of the houses built during the last bubble were at
> the outer accretion layers of suburbia and not particularly close to any
> jobs. Its as if the people building these houses and the politicians
> maintaining policies that support their build assumed either (1.) oil will
> always be cheap and people wont mind spending 2 hours a day in their cars
> every working day or (2.) these houses wont ultimately be paid for by wages.
> One aggravating factor of the bust a few years ago which never gets as much
> mention as obscure financial instruments or banking malfeasance relates the
> spike in oil prices in 2007 to the initial wave of defaults in these outer
> suburbs. Granted, the people moving into these marginal outer layers were
> probably the most marginal credit risks, but its conceivable that any change
> for the worse could be all the more likely to put them over the edge and
> into default.
> 
> I guess my bias is that I attribute too much to resource and energy
> scarcity. When I see an explanation for either the start of our current
> troubles or why we can't see an end, I expect it to ultimately reference
> these things. Although there are a few brief mentions of energy efficiency
> as it relates to productivity gains and as a possible source for new jobs in
> construction, this is pretty paltry when you consider how world energy
> production has basically flatlined, but there are many, many more consumers
> driving up its price (think of all the new cars sold in China each day).
> 
> When I think of the U.S., I think we're almost uniquely disadvantaged by how
> spread out our cities have become in the last 60 years and how the only
> option for getting around that has been faithfully and consistently
> supported and encouraged is the personal car.
> 
> 
> 
> On 20 Jun 2011, at 17:08, Owen Densmore wrote:
> 
>> Tom Friedman's Op Ed
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/opinion/12friedman.html?_r=1&partner
>> =rssnyt&emc=rss
>> 
>> He starts with shocking mortgage statistics, but then discusses 
>> unemployment and its causes via this report:
>> http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publications/us_jobs/index.asp
>> 
>> Quote: McKinsey Global Institute released a long study of the 
>> structural issues ailing the U.S. job market, entitled: "An Economy 
>> That Works: Job Creation and America's Future." It begins: "Only in 
>> the most optimistic scenario will the United States return to full 
>> employment before 2020. Achieving this outcome will require sustained 
>> demand growth, rising U.S. competitiveness in the global economy and 
>> better matching of U.S. workers to jobs."
>> 
>> Interestingly enough, they still feel education is important but 
>> stress areas of current need.
>> 
>> BTW: The tech bubble folks are afraid of is likely NOT to be one. Marc 
>> Andreessen (admittedly a techie) has compiled P/E ratios of the new 
>> tech market and shows them to be well under traditional values. They'd 
>> please any conservative investor.
>> 
>> Tom is concerned about the Uncertainty Tax .. our loss of production 
>> due to fear of downturn unknowns, but ends: Any good news? Yes, U.S.
>> corporations are getting so productive and sitting on so much cash, 
>> just a few big, smart, bipartisan decisions by Congress on taxes and 
>> spending (and mortgages) and I think this whole economy starts to 
>> improve again. Workers with skills will be the first to be hired.
>> 
>>  -- Owen
>> 
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe 
>> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at 
>> http://www.friam.org
> 
> 
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> 
> 
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Reply via email to