What a wonderful treat on Wednesday night in Santa Fe, New Mexico, Earth, Observable Universe, the immensely huger Unobservable Universe ( a multiplication by a number greater than 1 with 75 million zeros ) within the same expanding space-time-energy universe bubble, within a source infinity that effortlessly allows infinities of such universe bubbles, and far, far more, which I point at by saying,
"Each of us is already always all of single entire unified creative fractal hyperinfinity..." So we are sentient raisins with cinnamon in a very big, stupendous and sweet cake, always cooking, always fresh, forever moist... What Jesus said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within thee..." He shot off his mouth sometimes, overturned some tables, but carried no weapons, and didn't even avoid arrest... The early Christians were communists, sharing their worldly goods, sharing inspired ecstasy and many literal miracles... So, loving and enjoying and treasuring the various lines of thought shared well and sweetly by my niece and my colleague, rather than fiddle with the dials of life, trying to tune in the right station amidst the storm of chaotic channels and outright static, I teasingly offer the alternative of personally requestioning everything, everything, for if all this has a single root, what is it, really? Did the root vanish and become irrelevant because a huge ecology always evolving vegetation seems to both express its being and power and yet seem to also cover, obscure, and even contradict it? Or is the root immune, absolute, real, beyond spaces and times, actually infinite -- and fractal means that every tiniest bit of it is all of it... Or even radically already here, within awareness, the soft quiet dark soul soil of your awareness this very instant, the soft damp warm fertile soil that supports every weed and flower of sensation, perception, memory, thought, family, society, physical environment?... So, my list is everything that fits within a global Christ realized communism, not bureaucratized or controlled, but a sweet sanity of forever incredibly compex interacting innovations that profoundly enrich and bless all participants within a completely open reality play that practically totally transcends all previous human cultural structures of identity, location, communication, space, time, causality, life, death, sharing infinitely incandescent creative glory in unimpeachable holiness and forever unlimited unique individuality -- why praise ye me, for it is the Father within that doeth the works? Please, I beg thee, be curious -- what is spiritual experience? Can you imagine such a thing in your life as vigorously growing, ever evolving, unpredictable, literally inconceivable personal experience that nevertheless can be easily be shared -- "Where two or more are gathered in my meaning, there also I must be..." Please, do not just sit, crawl, or walk in circles, rush for the exit! Everything at once is the exit... Where is this very present moment of deeply personal experience, in which the visual field of your awareness creates and generates plentiful meanings from these very little crooked le t t e r marks.. . . . . . . ? Where is here? Where is hear? within mutual service, Rich On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Nicholas Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Ok, I have a moment. Let me try to answer some of your points here. First, > let me say that I don’t think Uncle Richard and I agree on everything. > Second, I think I disagree with you even more. Third, I think – feel, what > have you – that if people who disagree with one another don’t learn to talk > to each other in this country, we are doomed. Four, I think most people > most of the time start with their conclusions, and work back, changing their > view of the facts and reasoning as necessary to conserve their conclusions. > So, for minds to change in an argument is VERY VERY rare. But we must try. > > > > From: Anne Rowland [mailto:annerowlandmu...@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:32 PM > To: Rich Murray; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Rich > Murray > Cc: nickthomp...@earthlink.net > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. > > > > Dear Uncle Richard, > > > > I've read through your e-mail and although I love you and respect your > spiritual nature, I have to disagree with many of your suggestions. In an > ideal utopia populated by unselfish people, some of these ideas might work, > but we don't live in such a world at this time. > > [NST ==>] People are neither inherently selfish or unselfish. It depends on > the circumstances. And selfishness is neither inherently evil or inherently > good. Groups can do evil and unselfish adherence to a group that is doing > evil can be the worst sort of evil. > > > > You've suggested free health care, free phone and internet access, free > food, free education. (#1, #4, #11, #17) Great idea. Who pays for it? > Doctors, internet providers, farmers and teachers all deserve to be paid for > their goods and services. To ask them or any other people to to work and > provide to others for free sounds close to slavery. > > [NST ==>] if uncle Richard argued for free … etc., I would have disagreed > with him. But there is a notion of “deserve” there which I might have asked > you to rethink. “Deserve” and “rights” and “entitlement” are funny sorts of > words because while they describe something I can “have”, the really refer > to something that somebody else has contracted to give me. In the absence > of obligations accepted by others, there are not rights, etc. Slavery is an > odd word to use in this context because, if I undertake to work for you for > no pay, I would not be a slave – by definition. So at that point in the > argument, you are not arguing fair with Uncle Richard. > > > > Several of your suggestions take freedoms from us. ( #2) Allowing public > funding of candidates would limit my ability to support a candidate I > believe in and at the same time force me to support candidates and policies > I oppose. > > [NST ==>] Freedoms are all relative to other freedoms and to the freedom of > others. Imagine a situation in which a man was so rich that he could by all > the television advertising time for his candidates. No other candidates > could appear on television. Would you defend his right to do so? > > > > (#9) Redesign housing? I don't want the government to tell me what kind of > house I can live in or what car I drive. > > [NST ==>] Governments tell you these sorts of things all the time. Building > codes, zoning, etc. There is in common law the concept of public wellbeing > and it is the role of governments to see to it. The most obvious example of > this sort of power is in cases where the individual can endanger the health > of the entire community. How far would you go to defend the rights of > somebody with small pox to run around kissing other people. Not very far, I > would guess, right? “NO FAIR!” , you say. Extreme case. Yes, and the > cases grade away from that extreme. What about helmet laws? What about the > laws the prohibit texting while driving? These are all situations in which > the public has an interest that may override the individual interest. What > about smoking? There is a lot of evidence that my smoking affects your > health. How do we work out these conflicts of interest? > > > > One of the problems here is that people are often not very good at > calculating their own interest in a situation. They think, for instance, > that THEY probably won’t have a head injury riding a motorcycle. And in > fact, that is correct. Most people wont. But when it happens, it is the > rest of us that pick up the tab, no. I can imagine a law that said, under > no circumstances shall a person injured in a motorcycle accident be admitted > at any public hospital without prepayment of all bills that are likely to > be incurred in a motorcycle accident. Perhaps, you could get a special > license fromDMV which allows you not to wear a helmet or do up your seat > belt, but which requires you to post a million dollars bond to cover > hospital and burial costs. That would be a possible libertarian world. But > just as some of Rich’s ideas don’t work because people are to selfish, these > ideas don’t work because people are too altruistic. And bonded or not, > somebody with a severe head injury is going to be treated. > > > > (#10) Great idea to use these energy sources, but I can't afford some of > them. Forcing us to use only these would reduce the quality of living for > many of us. We should be able to choose. (#3) Public lobbying only, with > immediate transcripts of all conversations sounds very intrusive and "Big > Brother" like. I don't want everything I say to my representatives recorded. > (#19) I am a woman living alone. I have the right to protect myself with a > weapon should the situation ever arise. > > [NST ==>] > > Well, skipping head because it is late. I don’t think any state has a law > against the keeping of a properly licensed hand gun in a private home for > that purpose. So you already have a right to do that. But I believe that > the probability that that firearm will be (a) stolen and used in a felony > (b) result in an accidental shooting of some sort (c) or be used for a > suicide is much greater than the probability that it will ever be used to > prevent and intrusion. In cases a, b, and c. again, the rest of us pick up > the tab. Now once again, you will say, that you will be an exception to that > rule. But scientific investigation after investigation shows that people > just naturally think that they are exceptions to all these rules. > > > > Gotta go to bed. Sorry I couldn’t do it all. Nick > > (#20) Great idea. I hate a lot of what I see in TV shows and commercials as > well. Say goodbye to free speech. (#21) I don't want outsiders involved in > my spirituality > > > > I love your suggestion to encourage entrepreneurs to evolve and innovate, > but most of your other suggestions do the exact opposite. As a business > person myself, there's no reason for me to invest my own money to build a > new business if it is all to be taxed away and given to others. (#1, #4, > #5, #6, #10, #11, #14, #15, #16, #17) (#26) If we want to encourage small > businesses to proliferate, let them keep more of the money they earn. > > > > My last comments on your suggestions are more loosely grouped. > > > > #7 There are already laws against fraud. I should be able to choose my own > investments. I'm not sure I trust the government to pick safe stocks. > (Solyndra...) > > #8 Yes! We agree here on equal rights! > > #11 We agree on healthy & safe food. I'm in this business! I should not > have to give it away for free. > > #13 Great suggestions for some troubled people. I still want rapists and > murderers locked up. > > #18 I agree that pot should be legalized. Other harder drugs - I'm not > convinced that legalizing them is a good idea. > > #22 What benefit would there be to joining the EU? > > #23 Yes, perhaps some bases should be closed, but to keep our country safe, > we do need the ability to act quickly in many parts of the world. > > #24 Yes - in many cases I agree that foreign military aid should be cut. > > #25 Foreign aid is a big part of who we are as Americans, but we are > overspending on so many things here at home. Foreign aid should be > re-evaluated as to where this aid is spent. > > > > I must say that I don't expect to change your mind with my comments, nor am > I really trying to. I don't plan to become involved in a drawn out debate > with you or others. I just wanted to present another side to your > suggestions. > > > > With love, Annette > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rich Murray" <rmfor...@gmail.com> > > To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" > <friam@redfish.com>; "Rich Murray" <rmfor...@gmail.com>; "Rich Murray" > <rmfor...@comcast.net> > > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 11:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. > > > > I am grateful for your initiative -- I'll join the group for a few > hours -- this wave of original, heart-felt upwelling joining and > sharing is extremely wonderful -- I suggest setting up a continuous > live video site, along with a public arena for candid sharing and > discussion -- > > 1. universal free full health care, including full truth about safe > and healthy food, drink, and environment > > 2. only public funding of all candidates > > 3. any lobbying has to be only by fully public forever archived > communications, with immediate transcripts of all oral conversations > > 4. universal free global phone and Net access, with affordable or free > tablets for everyone over 6 > > 5. high and rising minimum wage > > 6. 4 day 6 hour/day standard work week > > 7. minimum safe citizen's investment income on positive productive > investments, democratically owner owned and run, at above 6 % yearly, > with rules that prevent evolution of stock market Ponzi effects > > 8. positive equal rights and opportunities for all > > 9. redesign of houses and cars for simplicity, elegance, low cost, > sustainability > > 10. nonpolluting power sources only -- solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, wave > > 11. healthy and safe food for free for all > > 12. entrepreneurs encouraged to evolve innovative business networks > that are maximally beneficial and empowering for themselves, > owner-investors, and all humanity > > 13. eliminate the superstitious and primitive concept of retribution > and punishment in improving social order, replaced by use of small > group processes like AA and cooperative group homes of no more than 30 > members, with thorough therapy, reeducation, health care, recreation, > normal sex available, Skype sharing with friends and family, > meaningful work at all levels, full salary for work performed, > training in helping others > > 14. high and rising minimum wage for all workers > > 15. 3 month yearly vacation for all workers > > 16. tax rises with total income to 95% at $ 100 million > > 17. free unlimited universal education > > 18. legalization of drugs, with close monitoring of actual effects on people > > 19. elimination of weapons that kill people > > 20. promote self-regulation of media to limit advertising for > violence, greed, ostentatiousness, selfishness, sexual acting out > > 21. promote spiritual exploration and sharing > > 22. join the European Union > > 23. close all 1,000 foreign military bases > > 24. cease all foreign military aid > > 25. substantially increase positive only foreign aid > > 26. set up rules that encourage proliferation of firms smaller than 30 folks > > within single hyperinfinity, > Rich Murray > rmfor...@gmail.com > 505-819-7388 > rich.murray11 Skype audio, video > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson > <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Dear Local Friammers, >> >> I asked others on the list to inform me about Occupy Wall Street –type >> activities in Santa Fe, and, since nobody did and since I learned a little >> more, myself, I thought I would say what I think I know. >> >> (1) The Group at the State Capitol building house seemed to represent >> many (laudable) interests but to have no over- arching message yet or a >> well-defined local target. Lots of friendly horn beeping and waves and >> only >> one negative comment from a guy who seemed to shout at us that we were >> “prawns!” “Prawns?!” we said. Oh PAWNS! But then the light changed and he >> was gone. >> >> (2) The center of the group’s activities has been the Bank of America at >> the corner of Peralta and St. Francis just where St. Francis starts up the >> hill toward 599 and Tesuque, etc. Some have been camped (with permission) >> on an empty lot across the street. >> >> (3) That permission is running out and the group will meet there meet >> tomorrow evening to discuss next steps. All interested parties presumably >> invited. >> >> (4) The group’s web presence seemed not yet well organized. Perhaps it >> is getting organized as I speak, but since there are a lot of people on >> the >> Friam list with relevant skills, perhaps some of us might want to take >> notice. >> >> (5) I have some experience with Google Sites and I have offered (please, >> don’t laugh), (if nobody better puts up his/her hand), to put together a >> primitive Google Site/Group for the purpose of posting information, >> offering >> a forum, etc. But I have experience only with private Google Sites and >> have >> a sense from reading Google Help Forums that public Google Sites are >> terribly vulnerable to outside interference. Is this true? Do you have >> advice to give me in this matter. Is Facebook a far better way of >> achieving >> these goals. >> >> (6) The above information is gathered informally and may all be >> incorrect. >> >> Thank you for your patience. >> >> I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that >> many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so >> I >> will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or >> equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, >> for >> which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. >> >> Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. >> >> Nick >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> http://www.cusf.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
