Dear Nick I think the both of us are talking at cross purposes here. I know next to nothing about philosophy. Perhaps somebody like Richard Dawkins could help you here.
In my faith (I do wish the Islamists, Mormons, Sikhs, etc on this list would speak out) . the "Devil" is all that is "known" (and hence wrong) whereas "God" is that which is "unknown" / unknowable. The more we become knowledgeable the less wise/efficient we are. Islam apparently has a similar view (although perhaps not for the same reasons as us). Images on Television are "devilish" (whereas those gazillion black and white pixellated dots on a blank channel are "God"). I recall a SF short story about a programmer who starts off decoding this seemingly random white noise with a BASIC progam on an Apple II and works it up eventually to a supercomputer where he starts getting pseudo-gibberish possibly from God. In sum: Philosophy falls in the realm of Devils ... and your name is very apt. Sarbajit On 9/17/12, Nicholas Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Sarbajit, > > I think I believe that everybody HAS a philosophical system. The variables > are how explicit it is and whether the holder of the system is capable of > engaging in analysis and critique. > > If somebody says they don't have a philosophical position, it generally > means that they have one and they don't want to talk about it. A > non-philosophical person is just a person who is rigid in his philosophy. > > As to religion, can I be religious if God plays no part in my thought or > discourse, either as an assertion or a denial? Here I am prone to > confusion > because I may confuse religion with metaphysics. I definitely believe that > there are principles operating in the universe that are not in my immediate > experience yet can be called upon to explain my experience. I would be > hard > pressed to say what those principles ARE, but I am pretty sure they are > back > there somewhere. Some of them are the kind of things that physicists > know, > but I don't. But not all. One of them might be The World is an OK Place, > and that, if we keep tinkering and poking at it, things will get better. > Another is the idea that, on average, thinking about stuff is better than > not thinking about it. A third is the idea that Things Have Causes. These > are all certainly elements of metaphysics, but are they religion? > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > I think that this way of being > > -----Original Message----- > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Sarbajit Roy > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:42 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] just faith > > > > Well atheism would only convey a negation of belief (in God) to me. My > religious model has no problem accommodating atheists, and contrawise I > have > no problem with an atheist's belief model built around no-God (or Gods or > gods or GOD ...). As long as it functions its irrelevant whether a car (or > religion) runs on gasoline or horse-manure or hot air. > > > > My religion (loosely called "Adi Dharm") originally reduced the 330 million > "gods" of Hinduism down to one ("Brahma" the absolute reality). Having done > that very successfully we were forced to go underground in the previous > century, and a not insignificant portion of our adherents became "godless" > Communists. Today we don't have a conception of a God as a father / creator > figure. Instead we conceive God as "the" principle which regulates > existence/ the uinivers/ multiverse/ parallel worlds or whatever. Deus is > the "mechanism behind the clock" and not the "clock maker". The issue is > whether atheists also acknowledge that there is a principle (or law . or > set > of laws) which govern "their" universe. > > > > I agree with Eric, newer generations are not interested in philosophical > systems any more or artificial religious categories. > > There are too many other things going on in their lives. > > > > On 9/17/12, Nicholas Thompson < <mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Sarbajit, > >> > >> Given your range of experiences with the religious, I am curious for > >> your reflections on atheism as a religion. When push comes to shove, > >> are we atheists any the less religious, in the very broadest senses of > that term? > >> In what ways? > >> > >> Nick > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:[mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com]> > [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > >> Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy > >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:51 AM > >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] just faith > >> > >> Platinga's view is fairly well aligned with the beliefs of my own > >> faith even though our "God" may be different. We all develop our own > >> models of reality, apparently the trick is to ensure that these models > >> are robust enough accommodate everybody else's gremlins, devils, > >> zombies, or maulvis and still continue to function. > >> > >> > >> > >> I probably know more Muslim's personally then half the members on this > >> list. > >> My neighbour is a Muslim and I also employ Muslims. India is a secular > >> country whose 13% Muslim population is free to migrate anywhere in the > >> world > >> which will take them in - not many do. India's Muslims when asked (by > >> foreigners such as the BBC or the NYT) usually volunteer they consider > >> themselves to be better off in India vis-a-vis their brethren in Muslim > >> countries like Pakistan or Iran (notwithstanding the occasional bouts of > >> communal frenzy which develop over pigs feet or beef entrails being >> thrown > >> by the butchers of each community). > >> > >> > >> > >> India was ruled for over 200 years by Muslims as was China (Yuan >> dynasty). > >> America probably needs to experience Muslim rule for some time to develop > a > >> sustainable and robust reality model. The "Dune" SF series was heavily > >> influenced by Islamic models. > >> > >> > >> > >> OT: Interestingly, "Islamic science fiction" is an emergent discipline in > >> the Arabic world to attract younger followers to the world of the Taliban > >> and Al Qaeda. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sarbajit > >> > >> > >> > >> On 9/17/12, Roger Critchlow < < <mailto:r...@elf.org> mailto:r...@elf.org> > <mailto:r...@elf.org> r...@elf.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Reading > >> > >>> < > <http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/philosopher-defen> > http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/philosopher-defen> > >> <http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/philosopher-defen> > http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/philosopher-defen > >> > >>> ds-religion/ > >> > >>> was > >> > >>> a rather odd experience this week, mixed in with Sam Bacile, the > >> > >>> Salafists, the zombies, and whatever. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> The review is by a non-believer (Thomas Nagel) who finds the book, > >> > >>> written by a believer (Alvin Plantinga), very interesting, even though > >> > >>> he doesn't believe it. Plantinga's day job is analytic philosophy, so > >> > >>> he gets very precisely into what he thinks it is that his faith and > >> > >>> his beliefs do for him. Finally, the main argument is sort a grand > >> > >>> slam of creationism: we wouldn't be able to correctly figure out how > >> > >>> the world works if the deity, more specifically the deity that Plantinga > >> believes in, wasn't helping us > >> > >>> along the way. Why would natural selection by itself care anything > >>> about > >> > >>> the truth? > >> > >>> > >> > >>> As the reviewer says: "The interest of this book, especially for > >> > >>> secular readers, is its presentation from the inside of the point of > >> > >>> view of a philosophically subtle and scientifically informed theist-an > >> > >>> outlook with which many of them will not be familiar." > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -- rec -- > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ============================================================ > >> > >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > >> > >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, > >> unsubscribe, maps at < <http://www.friam.org> http://www.friam.org> > <http://www.friam.org> http://www.friam.org > >> > >> > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <http://www.friam.org> > http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
