But Russ... if you concede Tory's point, then I think you are quite stuck. There are many, many, many people for whom the everyday world contains a divine being... and the everyday world is the everyday world. There are people who train hard to see God surrounding them, and there are people for whom it seems to come quite naturally (which is not to say it didn't develop, just that it came easily). For these people, by your definition, belief in God, and belief that God will continue to be with them forever, are NOT issues of faith.
Eric P.S. I have no idea what Nick will say about "faith" vs. "belief"! I think the concepts overlap pretty obviously, i.e., faith seems like it should be a subclass of belief. On the other hand, one could treat them as two different ways of talking about the same sort of thing. If we can get past your odd claim that faith has to be religious AND that religious things are not part of everyday life, I would be very interested to know how you think the two relate. On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:41 AM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]> wrote: >> >Nick,> > >>As I understand your position the words "faith" and "belief" are synonyms. I would prefer a definition for "faith" that distinguishes it from "belief." > >> > >>Tory, >> > >>Thanks for you comment on my posts. I'm glad you enjoy them. >> > >> >My definition of faith makes use of the notion of the everyday world. But I'm not saying that the everyday world is the same for everyone. Your everyday world may be different from mine. I'm just saying that believing that the world will continue to conform to your sense of what the everyday world is like is not faith; it's simple belief. > > >> > >>Eric, >> > >> >I would take "having faith in something" in the colloquial sense as different from "faith" in a religious context, which is what I was focusing on. >> >> >-- Russ > > > > >>On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Victoria Hughes <<#>> wrote: > > >> > >> >>Russ wrote, in part- >> >> > >Faith, I would say (in fact I did earlier) > > >is believing something that one wouldn't otherwise believe without faith. > > >Believing that the everyday world is the everyday world > > > doesn't seem to me to require faith. > > > > >>Russ, with all due respect for the enjoyment I get from your posts, I find this suspiciously tautological. >> > >>Who are you to define for the rest of humanity (and other sentient life forms) what 'the everyday world' incorporates? Numerous 'for instance' cases can immediately be made here. All you can do is define what you believe for yourself. You cannot extrapolate what is defensible for others to believe, from your own beliefs. > >> > >>And this statement ' Faith is believing something that one wouldn't believe without faith'. Hm and hm again. >> > >>Eagleman's new book <http://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348460523&sr=1-1&keywords=incognito+by+david+eagleman> offers fruitful information from recent neuroscience that may interest others on this list. His ultimate sections bring up hard questions about legal and ethical issues in the face of the myriad 'zombie programs' that run most of our behaviour. This looks like - but is not as simplistic as - 'yet another pop science book.' > >> > >>A review >><http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2011/06/david_eaglemans.html> > >> > >>Tory > > > >============================================================ > >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <http://www.friam.org> > > > > > > > ============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ------------ Eric Charles Assistant Professor of Psychology Penn State University Altoona, PA 16601
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