Glen -
To be proud of something that's biologically (or otherwise, I guess)
determined seems a bit odd, to me. E.g. other Texans claim to be proud
of their being born and/or raised in Texas makes me laugh and cringe at
the same time.
...
Anyway, I can't accept determined attributes as being something worthy
of pride. Enter the "free will" -- for individuals -- and "stigmergy"
-- for collectives -- debate(s). What attributes can we really be proud
of and what do we chalk up as hysteretic?
In the spirit of staying (returning to) the list's avowed topic, Let's
do look at this in terms of hysteresis and stigmergy (which you brought
up). If we take our culture of origin (not neccesarily birth nor
genetics, but our formative years, our nuclear family, our community) as
a stigmergic system with hysteresis but we also acknowledge human
consciousness, self-awareness and free will, then I think you can see
the distinction between what I said and what you heard.
If we truly understand the complex dynamic of the social system we are
embedded in (and in this case, shaped by) then we might have a chance of
exercising some of our free will in an enlightened self-interest
manner. What I'm espousing is an attempt to understand (be enlightened)
about our own nature (to the extent it was determined by our origins)
and to exercise whatever free will we have to A) improve our own lot
within the context of the system(s) we are embedded in, and B) to groom
(change our behaviour/trajectory in the system in a way that predictably
changes the whole system) those systems in a way that we believe suits
our self-interest.
Hysteresis itself does not admit free-will, and stigmergy, a bit more
refined, the feedback system being mediated by "symbols" of sorts is a
step closer. While neither model free will, it does seem that
self-aware agency within a system allows for free will to be part of the
dynamic. You might have a better way of saying this (or denying it)?
You found the embedding of Texas too difficult to change or endure so
you kicked a few of your jets in a way that threw you out of it's orbit
and into another orbit... others who remained in Texas may have *liked*
the very things you did not and chose to stay and reinforce them as best
they could (images of GeeDubya dragging mesquite branches around on his
ranch for the cameras) while others stayed and perhaps tried to adjust
the Symbol sets involved in the Stygmergic Loops (e.g... those fighting
against the death penalty, etc.). Think Willy Nelson's song: "Mommas -
Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be Cowboys".
Similarly, what can we _expect_ from those around us without seeming
"spoiled and usurious"? Even the most John Wayne style individualist
(self sufficient, yet generous, honorable, naively respectful, etc.)
will end up disrespecting her environment (people and things) because
individualism is ... bullsh!t, to put it nicely.
I think our species has a great deal of diverse ability... as omnivores
we can survive, even thrive on a wide range of foodstuffs, as
tool-wielders with opposable thumbs (and language?) we can modify our
environment (physical and social) in a way that lets us live everywhere
from (nearly) the highest mountains, the coldest arctics, the scantiest
of islands, the driest of deserts... and as social animals, we can
survive and thrive in a wide variety of social contexts. Even a single
individual can engage in a strong collective during part of their life,
and become a hermit for another part. We are all Siddhartha if we
choose to be.
I think you can see the difference between a healthy member of a healthy
group and a "spoiled and usurious" parasite living on a stew of
resources taken thoughtlessly from "the commons" by pirates supported by
whatever it is said "parasites" can offer them (votes, deference, $$?).
So, one not only
should we have expectations, we _must_ in order to fully understand
symbiosis.
I didn't mean to dis the concept of expectations. Expectation without
commensurate responsibility is what I call Entitlement. When we presume
something is owed to us (often because of our genetics or our
nationality or perhaps just the luck of our circumstances), I think we
are engaging in UNENLIGHTENED self-interest.
We may get what we expect but we also likely don't appreciate the full
context of our "having" and whether it bites us in our own lifetimes or
not, it likely bites our friends, family, children... or theirs... or
more likely, someone we've never met but would probably have sympathy
for if we realized what we were doing to them? Maybe Xenophobic,
Jingoistic, Racist strategies have a high utility factor within many
contexts, but I believe that we are evolving away from those being
required (Tit for Tat?) to survive and possibly counter to being able to
thrive in the world shrunk small by communication and transportation.
(That reminds me of the continuing increase in narcissism
scores of college students. Oddly, as civilization progresses,
entitlement progresses... funny that.) What should we expect, if not
lives better, richer, more luxurious, more relaxing, than our parents'?
I have no problem with everyone aspiring to a richer, more luxurious,
possibly more relaxing but also more adventurous, more interesting, more
suited to becoming more enlightened and to pursuing the self-interests
informed by that. None of that requires the bulk of what passes for
"progress" today.
Fortunately my children ?spontaneously? recognized that part of the
vector of the trajectory I'd helped put them on was bogus. While they
do like a good roof, warm durable clothing, and nourishing and tasty
foodstuffs, they are seeking something more than simply more quantity or
hyperbolic versions of that. Perhaps they had to be two generations
away from the shadow of our "great depression" from "the great wars" or
from the political and economic forces that drove some of their
ancestors to put all their worldy wealth down on a one-way ticket to
North America. Perhaps in the third world and various "emerging
Nations" this is what people have to focus on... more calories, a larger
suite of nutrients, a roof and walls and clothing that protects them
from the elements. I grant those people might naturally be focused on
material quantity. But in the first world, it is latent (or not)
hoarding IMO.
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