Steve, Glen,
I think that dualism is just the believe that everything-that-is is
of one kind, only. There is only one kind of “stuff” in the world.
Decartes was a mind-body dualist. Peirce was an experience-monist.
N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
*From:*Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steve
Smith
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2015 3:52 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Nondualism
Glen -
You are being uncharacteristically imprecise (I think).
If you are attributing (non)dualism to the province of Spiritualists,
then I point you to the many uses of Dualism in:
Science: Subject-Object observation or multiple conflicting
models (e.g. wave/particle duality)
Moral: Good V. Evil
Theological: Creator/Creation
Ontological: Yin/Yang
Cartesian:Materialism/Consciousness
Wiccan: god/goddess
Cognitive: Mind/Brain
...etc
Are you arguing *against* monism, against the idea that everything is
part of a single thing (e.g. the Universe, the Multiverse)?
I think I hear that your task is with what you call "New Thought"
religions and in particular their alleged idea that dualism is the
source of suffering and the related assumption that suffering is
bad? As a good Calvanist (I'm guessing a good New Englander like
Nick has his own dose of this) I tend to embrace suffering when it
comes my way (and feel it is inevitable that it will) if not outright
seek it (nope, no Penitentes in my family tree that I know of!).
I find that many "New Thought" philosophies/religions seem to adopt
(adapt/corrupt?) the Buddhist notions of suffering (Dukkha) which
arises from various sources: Aging/Illness/Death; Clinging to the
illusion of no-change; Clinging to the illusions of identity/existence.
Without being a proselyte of any particular form New Thought , I
would suggest that what they are saying (the core message, not what
the fringe and the wannabes are saying) is that a great deal of what
we experience as suffering (fear, anxiety, anger, loathing, etc.) is
rooted in the illusion of a strong self-other duality. I believe
this is roughly the dichotomy (speaking of dualism) between those in
"the West" who are trying to respond to the increased scope and
magnitude of Islamic State (and similar) violence with angry violence
in return and those who are trying to understand how these people and
their violence are part of a bigger pattern that includes us.
In your terminology, the Dualist sees IS, etc. only as a threat to be
hammered back into the ground (think Whack-a-Mole) while the
NonDualist perhaps sees IS, etc. as a "natural" response to the
conditions the participants have been put under. The Dualist,
despite suffering acute fear-of-other may well be more-happy than the
NonDualist who does not have the benefit of a "simple answer" who
must suffer *some of* the same fear as the Dualist as well as the
angst of guilt (perhaps) for recognizing one's part in the larger
pattern yielding the acute symptoms underway.
That said, I've been irritated by "New Age" thinkers from my earliest
awareness of them for their propensity to co-opt the language of
science for their purposes, as well as replacing (IMO) healthy
optimism with polyanna wishful thinking.
My own personal philosophy (despite my own Libertarian roots)
includes the belief that if I can relax into non-dualism, "I" will
not only be "infinitely happy", "I" will cease to exist. There is a
bit of a paradox in this, as as much as "I" would like to exchange my
various modes of anxiety and distress for the calmness and "just so"
ness of the nondualistic perspective, such an exchange would
ultimately mean the elimination of the "I" who is
contemplating/willing that change.
I hope I have done something more than just stir the cauldron
bubbling in your head.
- Steve
OK. I've had some chance to read a bit about this spiritualist
concept of nondualism. It's much too spiritual for me, since I
don't believe in spirits or anything of the sort. >8^)
But one question came to the front everytime I tried to read
about it: Why do all these New Thought religions insist that
their religious experiences always be _good_ or pleasant? They
always talk about being at peace or "at one with the universe" or
whatnot. I'm not a big fan of Christianity. But at least,
there, when you encounter an angel, it can be very frightening,
almost Lovecraftian... and there's all this lore surrounding not
being able to look God in the face and such. I've had what I
could easily call religious experiences (like the way time slowed
to a crawl right before a car crash when I was in high school ...
or the near catatonic state induced by Catholic Mass as a kid)
and I'd say that maybe 2/3 of them were good or pleasant. The
rest were frightening or anxious, especially the
"gestalt-busting" ones that caused me to rethink my whole world
view.
This is why the New Thought religions, including nondualism, seem
like advertisements for multi-level marketing schemes... like
Amway. Become one of us and you, too, can own 3 mansions and a
yaht! They're only one or a few steps more interesting than
things like the "prosperity gospel"
(http://www.ourladyofperpetualexemption.com/).
Why would religious experience necessarily be pleasant or good?
(Especially as a former libertarian, the thought of becoming one
with he universe is horrifying... It's socialist propoganda!
It's heat death! Run! Run towards your perverted individuality!)
On 11/02/2015 04:17 PM, Rich Murray wrote:
I enjoyed Friam for a few years -- glad to see a few others
have ventured
into expanded awareness explorations, like Zen -- shared
paranormal
experience is core to conveying mysticism -- this is becoming
more
prominent in recent years with the proliferation of free
video teaching,
crafted to induce expanded states in the viewers -- just Google
"nonduality" ... the style is to deepen the real-time process
of intimate
communication about moment by moment raw experience, while
agreeing on
shared positive goals -- this leads to viewpoints and vistas
that
completely shift and expand human experience beyond the usual
limits...
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