Thanks, Steve. I should have been explicit that I was thinking of the dozen or more people who sit around the table on Friday mornings when I said Friam was overwhelmingly pro Clinton. I sometimes forget about the couple hundred(?) who read the list but may not even live in Santa Fe. I apologize.
Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Dec 4, 2016 9:31 PM, "Steven A Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: > Frank - > > I like Jochen's contrast (literal/serious vs serious/literal) and was > mildly shocked he would ask the question so boldly here. I don't mind, > but have felt that everyone was avoiding any discussion outside of my lame > attempts to get a discussion about the election framed within the more > theoretical context of social choice theory and Arrow's algorithm, etc. > > I do know we have had some modest right-wing voices here in the past, I > haven't heard them in a while, maybe they were driven away or underground? > I understand that this forum is not intended to be overtly political but > agree with your assessment that we are probably collectively much bluer > than red. I'm surprised we don't have a more vocal/overt Green tinge? > Maybe it is the age/academic dimensions of our collective feature space? > > I think at least Glen and I represent something "completely different" > (from the group and from one another). I couldn't be characterized as > pro-Clinton except by the most abstract measures. Or more to the point > because I was (and am) staunchly anti-Trump/Republican. I see that while I > was composing this (over the course of a day) that DaveW weighted in with > his own non-red/blue tribute. > > I do so love to bust the chops of my pro-Trump friends by greeting them > the first time after the election with something like: "I am SO relieved > that we didn't elect another *hawkish, elite, bourgeoisie *Clinton!"; > followed by a nice pregnant pause and then: "The only thing worse than that > was having that *narcissistic, xenophobic, misogynistic, loony 1%* > Trump, elected as the hero of the proletariat class!" and "he's YOUR boy, > I'm going to ride you hard every time he *does* show those traits and > depend on YOU to reign him in or throw him under a bus if/when/as he > becomes truly dangerous to this country and the world". > > I don't know how things got so upside down/inside out, but I am very happy > (proud) to hold a strong socially conscious perspective which in my opinion > does not require big government (the old tax-n-spend liberal jab). It > ain't the Republicans, the NeoCons, the Tea Party, the Birthers, the > Alt.Right NOR the Democrats (NeoLibs?) nor the Libertarians. The Greens > are as close to a formal, organized group as I can see. Bernie was at the > very least "a good start" from my perspective. I > > like DaveW's suggestion of the possibility that this is a fertile ground > for "consensus building via dialog"... but it IS a bit forebidding/boding > with so many Trumpians *appearing* to demand that the anti-Trumpians "STFU" > on th principle (in his OrangeNess's own words) that there was a > "Landslide" in his favor. Just as there was nothing at all like a > "mandate" for Herr Bush in 2000, there is NO landslide. That is simply > Orwellian, bombastic rhetoric. So *I* do engage my "Trumpian" friends as > best I can, though, the more informed/eloquent/thoughtful of them seem a > bit embarassed at their "win"... as if they understand the curse "be > careful what you ask for"! *I* asked for Hillary NOT to win (by a > landslide anyway) and sure enough my prayers were granted... and I am in a > WTF moment, myself. > > I voted for Jill/Green in spite of a raucous roar of "a vote for Jill is a > vote for Trump!", trusting that this state was blue enough to keep Trump > out of OUR electoral college seats. Given the context and the lesser of > evils principles I would have voted Blue reluctantly to block Red, but was > exquisitely thankful to have Green as an option. I don't know what color > Gary is, some strange shade of purple? I support his basic platform of > personal liberties but don't really care for anything pro-business any > more. His strength in NM was also a good opportunity to vote Green... I'm > sure he "spoiled" more Red votes than Blue ones. > > As for Jochen's original question: "Will Trump make America great > again?"... geeze! I hope not! His vision of greatness is to be a "great > bully" on the world stage. Whether it is military or economic or > pop-culture leadership (dominance) he *might* bring us, I don't want > that. I can see a few silver linings in the grey cloud that he is: > > > 1. I'm not sure he (or his circle of crony-advisors) are competent > enough to achieve what they seek. I think they will fail from a "reach > exceeds grasp" error. But they will make big messes in the meantime. > 2. I do think we were way overdue for a shakeup in our political > parties/factions/lines-drawn... this represents that. He has either > completely crashed the Republican party or confronted it to re-assemble > with a radically new fundamental nature (or so I hope). I'm not sure what > will happen with the Dems... Bernie's rally to "rebuild the Democratic > party" seems like a bit too mild for me... I'd rather see the Greens fill > their niche and absorb most of their momentum. > 3. Things sometimes have to get worse before they get better. Maybe > Trumps abrupt shift of all the cannonry and the below-decks freight to one > side of the ship will wake us up and cause us to consider the implications > of this new listing and take it seriously enough to try to adjust the full > load, not just shift the superficial stuff around (aka deck chairs?). > > > Friam was overwhelmingly pro Clinton and Santa Fe strongly pro Clinton. > She won in New Mexico. I am sure I will be corrected if necessary. > > > Frank > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
