Steve, So far, at least as far as my definition of truth is concerned it is confined to a singular entity(system). Phase locking, et. al. are phenemona of multiple interacting systems - as is convergence. Except for the brief discussion of marching bands and acting troupes in my response to Merle, I have made no claims nor espoused any theory regarding collectives of interacting systems and it is only in the collective that such things as synchrony, resonance, convergence etc. would occur. It will be necessary to move to the group level before considering the the "truth" "Truth" concepts as presented by Nick channeling Pierce - but to date I am merely offering a definition of 'truth' as a condition of an individual system. Of course, you are correct that I adhere to any number of contingent truths and even behave as if they were meta-truths or even Truth - Vedic/Buddhist metaphysics and epistemology for two. Not to mention all the little things like not jumping off a roof and expecting to float like a cloud. davew
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Dave, et alii - > Our language around "Truthiness" lead me to consider the following:> When > Christiaan Huygens recognized injection locking between two of > his pendulum clocks, he referred to it as "a Strange Sympathy", > perhaps more strange because they had phase-locked 180 degrees out or > "counter synchronous"? This type of "Strange Sympathy" is > suggestive to me of the "Contrarian" nature of many of the > discussions on this list.> A "friend of FriAM" worked on the "Closer to > Truth" series when he > first moved to Santa Fe. I think working use of the term "Truth" is > apt for this conversation... that one *can* approach "Truth" but not > *reach* it, and that there is not a singular "Truth"... like "THE > Truth" which is reminiscent (for me) of our language here about "local > Truth" and my preference of "contingent Truth".> With your most recent > implied examples of "improv" and "riffing" and > "jamming", I am reminded of our discussion of Metaphor at Jenny's this > summer. My contention is that the value of a metaphor is that it > provides a target to break from. A *perfect* metaphorical mapping > would be a perfect isomorphic analogy between the metaphor's source > and target domain. This alone is relatively unuseful and > uninteresting. WHAT makes a metaphor useful (or at least > interesting)? Perhaps it is the structure provided by the elements > that *do* map directly that allows the elements that don't to provide > hints or gestures at "more Truth"? Of course, the very use of "Truth" > in this sense implies that there is a *singular Truth*, a "Platonic > Truth", even if it is not attainable in the *real* world, a > Transcendent Truth if you will?> I am trying to understand if we are > "converging on" the idea that > *convergence* or *resonance* or *synchrony* or *phase locking* or > *mode locking* is somehow a "bad thing"? Of course, such an idea is > self-contradictory... "if there is *Truth*, it exists in not trying to > name it"?> I suspect I will be told how I am wrong about this, but your > rhetoric on this topic suggests that in fact, you DO believe in some > kind of meta-Truth which is also *transcendent* and is "the Quality > without a Name" (Christopher Alexander) or the idea of "Je ne sais > Quoi" or "Wabi Sabi". It seems to have a lot in common with the > idea of "the Tao"?> - Steve > > > > On 10/19/17 8:18 AM, Merle Lefkoff wrote: >> Thanks. I'm quite relieved to read this, since I think it to be >> "true." And the term "mail in" is now part of my lexicon.>> >> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 1:15 AM, Prof David West >> <profw...@fastmail.fm> wrote:>> >>> Quite the opposite. The system at the root of my definition is >>> optimized for 'all improv, all the time'. When that 'improv' ability >>> is diminished by fixed, rote, performance, that is when the system >>> fails. When you listen to a really good jazz group, or an orchestra >>> learning a new piece (or playing it the first X number of times) >>> everyone is doing 'improv' i.e. actively listening to each other and >>> their instruments and making deliberative and intentional actions >>> towards their own instrument - that is really great. But, the >>> thousandth time the same piece is played in the same concert hall, >>> much of that active/deliberative/intentional aspect is lost and the >>> performers merely act by rote. They could be asleep and rely on >>> muscle memory to produce the sounds, which, by the way, start to >>> sound exactly like the notes on the sheet of paper, technically >>> correct but without soul.>>> >>> Actors use the term, 'mail it in' to describe performances that are >>> done without thought. Tom Cruise is an actor oft accused of mailing >>> it in because everything he does, regardless of film or character, >>> is the same - it is Tom Cruise, not the character he is supposed to >>> be portraying.>>> >>> davew >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017, at 02:09 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote: >>>> Are you suggesting that if individuals begin to--shall we say-- >>>> "improvise" that it disturbs the potential emergence of an harmonic >>>> system? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "mail in their >>>> part of the overall performance.">>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 12:58 PM, Prof David West >>>> <profw...@fastmail.fm> wrote:>>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> My definition refers to a single system - a single system and >>>>> is not>>>>> intended to suggest anything about interacting systems, nor >>>>> anything>>>>> external to itself. I do assume that this system is >>>>> contained >>>>> within a>>>>> complex system which is the source of the input signals >>>>> detected >>>>> by the>>>>> sensors. I similarly assume that the effectors may transmit >>>>> signals to>>>>> the containing system but want to leave that aside for >>>>> the moment.>>>>> >>>>> I could metaphorically equate my system to a neural network brain >>>>> within>>>>> the skin of a human being — but again would prefer to simply >>>>> focus >>>>> on my>>>>> system in a non-anthropomorphized manner; just to keep things >>>>> simple and>>>>> to avoid the potential for diversions into side >>>>> conversations. >>>>> >>>>> I am also using neural networks - without naming things as such - >>>>> again,>>>>> to avoid distractions, this makes explanations clumsier, but >>>>> it >>>>> serves>>>>> my purpose for the moment. >>>>> >>>>> The connecting web can route any input to any output, using a near>>>>> >>>>> infinite number of pathways. More importantly it can route any >>>>> combination of inputs to any combination of outputs along any >>>>> of the>>>>> near INFINITE (I yell only to point out the combinatorial >>>>> explosion of>>>>> pathways) number of routes (circuits). >>>>> >>>>> Now imagine that this system is an organism and that the >>>>> connection of>>>>> some [input | set of inputs | pattern of inputs] to >>>>> [an| set of |>>>>> pattern of] outputs increases its survival potential. >>>>> Further >>>>> imagine>>>>> that this system is highly dynamic and acutely optimized to >>>>> assure >>>>> than>>>>> and and all input/s are conveyed to the most useful output/s >>>>> (with>>>>> useful being simply the increase or maintenance of survival >>>>> potential.>>>>> The web of input-output connects can be 'rewired' in >>>>> "real time," >>>>> i.e.>>>>> in whatever unit of time exists between receipt of the next >>>>> inputs.>>>>> >>>>> Now imagine that a/some sensors seem to receive the same input >>>>> over and>>>>> over again and, due to "fatigue" they either shut down and >>>>> fail to >>>>> relay>>>>> the input to the web, or they lock into constantly sending the >>>>> same>>>>> input value to the web without regard to whatever was actually >>>>> sensed.>>>>> System fault. >>>>> >>>>> Similarly, a particular pathway (set of pathways) are utilized >>>>> more>>>>> often when receiving a particular pattern of inputs and those >>>>> pathways>>>>> channelize, essentially become fixed. System fault because >>>>> the >>>>> ability>>>>> of the system to adapt is impaired. This would be >>>>> particularly >>>>> evident>>>>> if the pattern of inputs begins to subtly change, but change >>>>> enough that>>>>> the pattern of outputs should be modified and they are >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> Whenever these faults occur, the system as a whole starts behaving >>>>> as if>>>>> A (set of inputs) IS B (set of outputs). That simply use of the >>>>> verb 'to>>>>> be' is my definition of "truth," and it is purely local >>>>> because >>>>> it is a>>>>> condition/state of the individual system. >>>>> >>>>> Very quickly - imagine several such systems interacting. Your >>>>> marching>>>>> band for example. For each member of the band as a single >>>>> organism (of>>>>> the type discussed above) all the other members of the >>>>> band are >>>>> simply>>>>> part of a containing complex system. When each of the >>>>> individual >>>>> systems>>>>> are using their innate ability to route the 'right' inputs >>>>> to the>>>>> 'right' outputs the outcome can be cacophony that morphs into >>>>> an >>>>> exquisite performance. But when individual systems start to fail ->>>>> >>>>> establish truthiness - start to "mail in" their part of the >>>>> overall>>>>> performance, the band as a whole and your enjoyment of their >>>>> performance>>>>> is bound to suffer. >>>>> >>>>> davew >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 04:58 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: >>>>> > Dave sez: >>>>> > > It is certainly possible for one sensor-web-effector state >>>>> > > machine to>>>>> > > "infect" another, i.e. stimulate a second machine >>>>> > > to replicate >>>>> > > the>>>>> > > behavior. If that happens we have 'convergence' which is >>>>> > > nothing more>>>>> > > than collective 'fault'/ 'defectiveness'. >>>>> > > >>>>> > It sounds as if you believe that resonance, mode locking, phase >>>>> > locking,>>>>> > tidal locking, etc. are somehow defective ways for >>>>> > systems to >>>>> > interact. I can agree that they are modestly less interesting >>>>> > than>>>>> > more chaotic systems. While *I* might find a marching >>>>> > (esp. if >>>>> > they>>>>> > are goose-stepping) army aberrant (and abhorrent), I might >>>>> > find a>>>>> > *marching band* or *synchronized swimmers* or a >>>>> > dance-troupe >>>>> > following a>>>>> > choreography (e.g. Cirque de Soliel perfomance) >>>>> > somehow >>>>> > beautiful. And>>>>> > I would suggest these are examples of what you >>>>> > are judging as >>>>> > "defective"? I suppose that since only a *subsystem* of the >>>>> > units>>>>> > (dancers/musicians/soldiers) are mode/phase-locked for the >>>>> > duration of>>>>> > the march/performance, that this is only a partial >>>>> > example and >>>>> > therefore>>>>> > only *partially* defective/faulty? >>>>> > >>>>> > I believe it is in the liminal space which fills the near- >>>>> > locality of a>>>>> > shared "dialect" where the interesting stuff >>>>> > happens, not unlike >>>>> > in>>>>> > dynamical systems' "edge of chaos". I agree with the >>>>> > technical>>>>> > expression that any "statement of Truth" is a defect, >>>>> > but that >>>>> > does not>>>>> > mean that it doesn't gesture in the direction of, or >>>>> > roughly >>>>> > circumscribe, or provide a proxy for a more transcendent >>>>> > "truth". One>>>>> > *might* argue that each individual has a >>>>> > private, idiosyncratic >>>>> > dialect>>>>> > of "the same language", and that interaction amongst >>>>> > individuals >>>>> > whose>>>>> > dialects are similar enough to intend to >>>>> > agree/discuss/converge/??>>>>> > >>>>> > I would claim that a well formed question suggests a family of >>>>> > "answers">>>>> > and thereby hints at what we want to believe in as >>>>> > "truth". >>>>> > >>>>> > This paper may (or may not) offer some perspective on the >>>>> > evolution of a>>>>> > language/dialect and teh convergence/coherence >>>>> > issue. >>>>> > >>>>> > https://www.researchgate.net/project/Coherence-Convergence-and-Change-A-Sociolinguistic-Variationist-Approach-to-Dialect-and-Standard-Language-Use-in-Swabia>>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> > - Steve >>>>> > >>>>> > ============================================================ >>>>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>>> > to unsubscribe >>>>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>>>>> > >>>>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove>>>>> >>>>> ============================================================ >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>>> to unsubscribe >>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>>>>> FRIAM-COMIC >>>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>>> Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding >>>> Saint Paul University >>>> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada >>>> >>>> merlelefk...@gmail.com[1] >>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609[2] >>>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> to unsubscribe >>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>>>> FRIAM-COMIC >>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>>> >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>>> FRIAM-COMIC >>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> >> Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding >> Saint Paul University >> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada >> >> merlelefk...@gmail.com[3] >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >> >> >> ============================================================ FRIAM >> ============================================================ Applied >> ============================================================ Complex- >> ============================================================ ity >> ============================================================ Group >> ============================================================ listserv >> ============================================================ Meets >> ============================================================ Fridays >> ============================================================ 9a-11:30 >> ============================================================ at cafe >> ============================================================ at St. >> ============================================================ John's >> ============================================================ College >> ============================================================ to unsu- >> ============================================================ bscribe >> ============================================================ >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> ============================================================ FRIAM- >> ============================================================ COMIC >> ============================================================ >> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> ============================================================ by Dr. >> ============================================================ Strange- >> ============================================================ love> > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove Links: 1. mailto:merlelef...@gmail.com 2. tel:%28303%29%20859-5609 3. mailto:merlelef...@gmail.com
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
