I believe Frank is generally right. However,when I was in college in the late sixties hippies were in full bloom but Maynard G Krebs (Adventures of Dobie Gillis) was a TV icon and Lord Buckley was on the pop radio. dave west
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017, at 05:39 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > In my experience, growing up in n the Bay Area, Beatniks had come and > gone before the Hippies emerged.> > Frank > > Frank Wimberly > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Nov 18, 2017 11:15 AM, "Steven A Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: >> Glen ☣- >> >> A Postmodernist trying to Rationalize Postmodernism to Rationalists?>> >> Actually I found it somewhat interesting... and was (nicely?) put >> off by the formatting... the ragged use of bullet points... a >> "bulleted list of one" seems very symbolic of my caricature of PoMo >> aesthetic.>> >> As for the summary you included here from the presentation: >> >> Best of Times: >> >>> A) my introduction (informal) to PoMo presented significantly as >>> both dogmatic and ideological... but that may have been >>> partly projection and partly the selectivity of what I >>> *recognized as* PoMo.>>> 2) The "focus on human values" is a >>> tautological statement? >>> PoMo seems to be centered (to the exclusion of all else) on >>> a subjectivity that is intrinsically "human" and maybe even >>> more acutely "self" as in "self-centered"? I'm not trying >>> to say that I don't find the PoMo perspective useful and >>> even appealing in many ways, but in it's purest form, it >>> would seem to degenerate to pure narcissism (without >>> judgement of that)?>>> c.) Definitely seems to help "expand >>> the mind" in roughly the >>> same manner that hallucinagens do? I also don't mean that to >>> be acutely dismissive, but the mechanism seems to be similar >>> to this, and/or maybe "annealing" with repeated (arbitrary?) >>> randomizing of the smallest elements with thermal excitation?>>> >>> IV) This one feels like the most useful (or least challenging?) >>> of his observations.>> >> Worst of Times: >> >>> .0 My earliest introduction to PoMo was exclusively (selective >>> hearing?) used to push shoddy agendas... I observed it being >>> used as a turd in the punchbowl more than anything. I think I'm >>> (well?) past judging it by that early introduction, but I think >>> the author cited here is (in other text) pointing at the abuses >>> of the Alt.Right these days.>>> II.) I like the allusion to Cargo >>> Cult... and it fits the >>> superficial approach of PoMo as I apprehend it... elevating >>> correlation (free association) to the level of causation. >>> Ignoring the implicit commutativity in the Form/Function >>> duality. I don't mean PoMo is intrinsically superficial, but >>> rather that it is often invoked in that mode and perhaps (too) >>> often apprehended that way in an attempt to dismiss it's >>> confrontational style (nature?).>>> c.a) 0.0 above exhibited in >>> this way more than not... it was >>> the tool of self-styled "young Turks" who, in some ways, >>> like the Anarchists of early c20, recognized that it is >>> easier (and can be more satisfying) to toss a bomb into >>> things than it is to try to deconstruct/reconstruct >>> thoughtfully.>>> Zed ☣) The existential loneliness of PoMo >>> seems to associate it >>> with Nihilism and may drive the worst aspects of it's >>> presentation in culture?>> >> PoMo seems "mature" enough now that it, itself is wanting to be >> received seriously (trying to rationalize itself to rationalists?). >> It's (unfortunate) association with the Beat culture (my experience >> growing up was that the Beats were mostly the over-30 dropout men who >> were trying to horn in on the youth culture of the Hippies, >> especially (surprise!) the girls) and aspects of the (subsequent) drop- >> out culture exemplified by the Merry Pranksters.>> >> But what comes after/follows-from PoMo? Post-Postmodernism? >> MetaModernism? A plenitude of *modernisms (as suggested by the >> PoMo aesthetic?)>> >> From the Wikipedia Post Postmodernism entry: >> >>> *Salient features of postmodernism are normally thought to include >>> the ironic play with styles, citations and narrative >>> levels,**[6][1]** a metaphysical skepticism or **nihilism[2]** >>> towards a “**grand narrative[3]**” of Western culture,**[7][4]** a >>> preference for the virtual at the expense of the real (or more >>> accurately, a fundamental questioning of what 'the real' >>> constitutes)**[8][5]** and a “waning of affect”**[9][6]** on the >>> part of the subject, who is caught up in the free interplay of >>> virtual, endlessly reproducible signs inducing a state of >>> consciousness similar to schizophrenia.**[10][7]*>> All I know about PoPoMo >>> I just read in Wikipedia (how non-PoMo of >> me?) but recognize some of the ideas and names referenced there. >> Eric Gan's PostMillenialism struck me for it's dismissal (judgement?) >> of PoMo as "victimary thinking"... a corollary of nihilism? I don't >> really take Gan's Generative Anthropology seriously (though it has >> interesting ideas) and DO (against my personal convenience) believe >> in a postCapitalist/postDemocracy (r)evolution on the cusp of >> happening (perhaps even in my lifetime?).>> >> I also find something interesting in this description of >> metaModernism (same source):>> >>> *As examples of the metamodern sensibility Vermeulen and van den >>> Akker cite the 'informed naivety', 'pragmatic idealism' and >>> 'moderate fanaticism' of the various cultural responses to, among >>> others, climate change, the financial crisis, and (geo)political >>> instability.*>>> *The prefix 'meta' here refers not to some reflective >>> stance or >>> repeated rumination, but to Plato's **metaxy[8]**, which intends a >>> movement between opposite poles as well as beyond.**[25][9]*>> >> Fire away! >> - Sieve >> >> >> >>> HTML: >>> https://palegreendot.net/rrg_notes/2017/10/09/rrg-reading-notes.html >>> PDF: >>> https://palegreendot.net/assets/2017-10-09/postmodernism_for_rationalists.pdf >>> I appreciated these 2 slides: >>> >>>> • Postmodernism at its best · Not dogmatic and ideological · >>>> Focuses on human values · Allows you to approach and understand >>>> other subjects and viewpoints · Acknowledges that the territory >>>> might require multiple maps • Postmodernism at its worst · Used >>>> to push shoddy political agendas · Cargo cult ideology · Used to >>>> rationalize and excuse asocial behavior · Results in existential >>>> loneliness >>>> >>>>> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove Links: 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-6 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_narrative 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-7 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-8 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-9 7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-10 8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaxy 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-25
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
