Zingale must be a mathematician. An equation that captures the theory of the adjacent possible is available.
On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:14 AM Jon Zingale <[email protected]> wrote: > Adjacent possibles are neighborhoods in a comonad. > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:05 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Send Friam mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..." >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?) >> (Merle Lefkoff) >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Merle Lefkoff <[email protected]> >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected] >> > >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 11:05:35 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we >> behave?) >> Nick, yes, we're very worried about the new "hard border" emerging >> between N. Ireland and the Republic. Another stupid consequence of >> Brexit. The Good Friday Agreement has always been fragile. >> >> We're having a meeting soon in Santa Fe about the adjacent possible, and >> attached is what Stu Kauffman and I wrote about the intention of the >> meeting. I combine Western and Native science because some of our >> international Indigenous network has expressed interest in being included >> in the meeting. Steve Guerin can tell you more about the adjacent possible. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 9:24 PM Nick Thompson <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> M >>> >>> >>> >>> Alright, then. What IS the adjacent possible? >>> >>> >>> >>> N >>> >>> >>> >>> PS – Given your work with the Irish Peace Process, this Dog’s Brexit t >>> must be driving you nuts. Have you heard the Donald Tusk quote about “the >>> special place in Hell that awaits those who floated Brexit without a trace >>> of a plan” . Nothing more than that. Just that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>> >>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >>> >>> Clark University >>> >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Merle >>> Lefkoff >>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2019 1:35 PM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we >>> behave?) >>> >>> >>> >>> N. >>> >>> >>> >>> No. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 1:30 PM Nick Thompson < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> M., >>> >>> >>> >>> Is that like “nudge”? >>> >>> >>> >>> N. >>> >>> >>> >>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>> >>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >>> >>> Clark University >>> >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Merle >>> Lefkoff >>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2019 1:04 PM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we >>> behave?) >>> >>> >>> >>> For whatever it's worth, Nick, I'm now using this thread in the work >>> we're doing on the adjacent possible. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 9:29 PM Nick Thompson < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> >>> >>> We were doing SO WELL until we got to … oh, see my “HORSEFEATHERS!” >>> below. >>> >>> >>> >>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>> >>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >>> >>> Clark University >>> >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steven >>> A Smith >>> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2019 9:39 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we >>> behave?) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/28/19 1:20 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >>> >>> Steve, ‘n all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just to be cranky, I want to remind everybody that ALL language use, >>> except perhaps tautological expressions, is metaphorical. >>> >>> I ascribe to this idea as well, following Lakoff and Johnson in their >>> 1980 _Metaphors we Live by_ . >>> >>> So then, the question is not, “Is this a metaphor”, but what kind of a >>> metaphor is it and is it pernicious. >>> >>> I believe that ultimately conceptual metaphor is no more nor less than >>> the intuitive application of a model, and as is often mentioned "all models >>> are wrong, some are useful". You use the term pernicious which suggests >>> *harmful*, I presume either intentionally so or more from sloppiness or >>> ignorance. >>> >>> My own view is that in any “tense” conversation – one in which the >>> parties feel the words really matter – it behooves a metaphor-user to >>> define the limits of the metaphor. >>> >>> I agree that "tense" conversations are different than "casual" ones if >>> that is your distinction. Unfortunately, outside of Science/Engineering >>> contexts, I find that "tense" conversations are at their root political or >>> at least rhetorical. One or both sides are really *serious* about being >>> believed. If not believed in fact ("I believe what you just said") then >>> in principle ("I believe that you believe what you just said"). >>> >>> I think that political/rhetorical dialog would *benefit* by careful >>> disclosure of all metaphors being used, but one mode of such dialog is for >>> one or both sides to attempt to interject equivocal meanings... to use a >>> term (or in this case set of terms belonging to a metaphorical domain) to >>> weave an *apparently* logical argument, which is only superficially logical >>> but falls apart when the "correct" meaning of the term(s) are applied. >>> >>> So, for instance, much mischief has arisen in evolutionary biology from >>> a failure of theorists to define the limits of their use of such metaphors >>> as “natural selection” and “ adaptation”. When limits are defined, the >>> surplus meaning of a metaphor is separated into two parts, initially, that >>> which the metaphor-user embraces and that which s/he disclaims. The >>> embraced part goes on to become the positive heuristic of the metaphor, the >>> “wet edge” along which science develops. >>> >>> From this line of discussion, I take you to be on the branch of the >>> fault-tree I implied above as a Scientific dialog where *both* sides of the >>> discussion are honestly trying to come to mutual understanding and perhaps >>> advance understanding by combining differing perspectives on the same >>> phenomena. >>> >>> The disclaimed part, must be further divided into that which was >>> legitimately [logically] disclaimed and that which was disclaimed >>> fraudulently. For instance, when sociobiologists use the notion of selfish >>> gene, they may legitimately disclaim the idea that genes consciously choose >>> between self-regarding and other-regarding options, but they cannot >>> legitimately disclaim the idea that a gene has the power to make any choice >>> but the self-regarding one. >>> >>> When Dawkins coined "Selfish Gene", I felt that the *value* of the >>> metaphor invoked was in the challenge it presents: >>> >>> And that idea is patently false. Genes do not make choices >>> >>> Patently Genes do not make choices in the sense that we usually mean >>> "make choices", yet the strong implication is that the phenomena functions >>> *as if* they do, in "all other ways". There may be (useful) hairsplitting >>> between "all other ways" and "many other ways" which is an important aspect >>> of analogical thinking. >>> >>> , they ARE choices and the choice is made at the level of the phenotype >>> or at the level of the population, depending on how one thinks about the >>> matter. So the metaphor ‘selfish gene’ is pernicious in evolutionary >>> biology, because it creates confusion on the very point that it purports to >>> clarify – the level at which differential replication operates to generate >>> long term phenotypic change in a population. >>> >>> I would challenge this as I think my verbage above outlines. I do not >>> believe that the metaphor *purports* to clarify what you say it does. >>> >>> *[NST==>* *HORSEFEATHERS!** One or two generations of sociobiologists >>> were directed away from group level explanations by this pernicious >>> metaphor. <==nst] * >>> >>> It *strives* to provide a cognitive shortcut and to establish a fairly >>> strong metaphor which deserves careful dissection to understand the >>> particulars of the *target domain*. An important question in the target >>> domain becomes "why does the shortcut of thinking of genes as selfish >>> actually have some level of accuracy as a description of the phenomena when >>> in fact the mechanisms involved do not support that directly?" >>> >>> *[NST==>I don’t think it does. I think it’s a subtle and largely >>> successful attempt to import Spenserian ideology in to evolutionary >>> biology. <==nst] * >>> >>> For all I know, EB has entirely debunked the concept and there is NO >>> utility in the idea of a "selfish gene"... >>> >>> Bruce Sherwood likes to make the point that the analogy of hydraulic >>> systems for DC circuits is misleading. I forget the specifics of where he >>> shows that the analogy breaks down, but it is well below (or above?) the >>> level of "normal" DC circuit understanding and manipulation. For the >>> kinds of problems I work with using DC circuits, a "battery" is a "tank of >>> water at some height", the Voltage out of the battery is the water >>> Pressure, the amount of Current is the Volume of water, a Diode is a >>> one-way valve, a resistor is any hydraulic element which conserves water >>> but reduces pressure through what is nominally friction, etc. As you >>> point out, there is plenty of "excess meaning" around hydraulics as source >>> domain, and "insufficient meaning" around DC circuits as target domain, and >>> if one is to use the analogy effectively one must either understand those >>> over/under mappings, or be operating within only the smaller apt-portion of >>> the domains. For example, I don't know what the equivalent of an >>> anti-hammer stub (probably a little like a capacitor in parallel?) is but >>> that is no longer describing a simple DC circuit. >>> >>> *[NST==>I think I am back to heartily agreeing. <==nst] * >>> >>> A farmer buying his first tractor may try to understand it using the >>> source domain of "draft animal" and can't go particularly wrong by doing >>> things like "giving it a rest off and on to let it cool down", "planning to >>> feed it well before expecting it to work", "putting it away, out of the >>> elements when not in use", etc. your "excess meaning" would seem to be >>> things like the farmer going out and trying to top off the fuel every day >>> even when he was not using the tractor, or maybe taking it out for a spin >>> every day to keep it exercised and accustomed to being driven. The farmer >>> *might* understand "changing the oil" and "cleaning the plugs" and >>> "adjusting the points" vaguely like "deworming" and "cleaning the hooves" >>> but the analogy is pretty wide of the mark beyond the simple idea that >>> "things need attending to". >>> >>> *[NST==>OoooooH. I like the above! May I plaigiarise it some day? Do >>> you by any chance know Epamanondas from your childhood. Very politically >>> incorrect, now, I fear, but endlessly instructive on the perils of over >>> using metaphors. <==nst] * >>> >>> >>> >>> PS – Is anybody on this list (among the handful that have gotten this >>> far in this post) familiar with the work of Douglas Walton? >>> >>> I just took a look and his work does sound interesting (and relevant). >>> >>> He seems perhaps to have written a lot about misunderstandings in AI >>> systems … i.e., how does Siri know what we mean? >>> >>> By AI, it seems you mean (the subset of) Natural Language Understanding? >>> >>> I am also reminded by reading the Wikipedia article on his work that I >>> haven't responded to Glen's question about the "theorem dependency project". >>> >>> I came to this work through my interest in abduction, which may be >>> described as the process by which we identify (ascribe meaning to?) >>> experiences. Walton seems to suggest that you-guys are way ahead of the >>> rest of us on the process of meaning ascription, and we all should go to >>> school with you. Please tell me where and when you offer the class. >>> >>> I assume the "you-guys" referred to here are the hard core CS/Modeling >>> folks (e.g. Glen, Marcus, Dave, ...). I do think that the challenges of >>> "explaining things to a machine" do require some rigor, as does formal >>> mathematics and systems like the aforementioned "theorem dependency >>> project". >>> >>> - Steve >>> >>> PS. It has been noted that my long-winded explanation of my (poorly >>> adhered to) typographical conventions for around "reserved terms" and the >>> like was perhaps defensive. I didn't mean to sound defensive, I just >>> wanted to be more precise and complete to (possibly) reduce >>> misunderstandings. I don't imagine many read the entireity of my >>> missives, but as often as not, when people do read and respond, I sense >>> that some of my conventions are not recognized. >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>> >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>> >>> [email protected] <[email protected]> >>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>> >>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>> >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>> >>> [email protected] <[email protected]> >>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>> >>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>> >> >> >> -- >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> [email protected] <[email protected]> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >> _______________________________________________ >> Friam mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA [email protected] <[email protected]> mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
