Fuzzy logic? This sounds like the distinction between measurement error and systematic errors?
----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 10:52 AM Nick Thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > Deep philosophical question: I don't think the nervous system is > interested in accuracy, per se. It is interested in prediction. So, an > "inaccurate" system that give a better prediction of future events would be > favored overran accurate one. The deep question, which I suspect you Wise > Guys are in a position to answer for me is: to what degree is predictive > accuracy dependent on accuracy of input. Now the first intuition is > "entirely." In meteorology, they talk about the "initiation of models", > which I take to mean how good were the measurements that they plugged in > for today's observations on which they based their predictions of future > ones. I wonder what sort of tradesoff exist between getting the original > points right and getting the model right. > > But I note, even as I drown here, how come we wear our retina's > backwards. Seems awfully careless of us, doesn't it? Is there any world > in which messy input is an advantage, or at least, not much of a > disadvantage? > > Nick > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prof David > West > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 12:42 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we? > > Ah Nick, > > because they finely tune the carrier wave (that which you perceive as > neural noise) in such a way that my quantum signal, being the delicate > creature it is, can survive multiple synaptic shocks as it moves from > neuron to neuron — the way you would want a well padded barrel when going > over Niagara Falls. > > davew > > (I assume you are wearing your hip boots as standard gear in the MIB.) > > > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > > David, > > > > I will see your "bushwash" and raise you a hornswaggle. > > > > Why, my feathered friend, if quantum accuracy is so important, do you > > wear your retina backwards? Why do you see through your ganglion > > cells. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prof David > > West > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 4:24 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we? > > > > Nick said: > > "I was taught this fascinating trope in graduate school... yes, THAT > > long ago. There is a second shoe, however. Yes the retina (cochlea, > > etc.) is that sensitive BUT the neural noise is much louder than that. > > > > So ... I think this is the right language ... even though the > > elements are sensitive to the smallest stimuli possible, the whole > > system cannot resolve stimuli that small ... anywhere near." > > > > Not to impugn your professors, but bushwah! > > > > To make an analogy: the "neural noise" is akin to "junk DNA" just > > because they had not figured out what signals existed within the noise > > and how they were transmitted and received does not mean lost signal. > > > > While "the system" seldom makes the effort to resolve at quanta scale > > does not mean that it cannot. (Why it seldom does is whole 'nuther > > thread.) > > > > But, assuming your professors were correct, would it be permissible to > > ask why the organism evolved the sensitivity only to evolve the > > blockade? Or, having evolved the blockade why then evolve the > > sensitivity? Where is the competitive advantage in having either the > > sensitivity or the blockade? Or, do such questions tend not to > > edification? > > > > I have seen the angels dancing on the head of the pin, so I know it > > can be done. Have also consorted with others, directly or > > intermediated by words, who can say, and demonstrate, the same. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > > > David, > > > > > > Can somebody forward this on to Mike Daly, whose email I can NEVER > recover? > > > > > > I was taught this fascinating trope in graduate school... yes, THAT > > > long ago. There is a second shoe, however. Yes the retina > > > (cochlea, > > > etc.) is that sensitive BUT the neural noise is much louder than > that. > > > So ... I think this is the right language ... even though the > > > elements are sensitive to the smallest stimuli possible, the whole > system cannot > > > resolve stimuli that small ... anywhere near. To do what it does, it > > > needs to weed out its own noise. So accuracy in vision is not a > > > question of accuracy of the elements, but of the ingenuity of > > > construction. Note, for instance that we wear our retinas "backwards": > > > we actually see THOUGH the many layers of the retina because the > > > light sensitive elements ... the rods and cones ... are at the back > > > of the retina. So all that sensitivity of light sensing elements is > > > rudely cast away in the organization of the retina. It's like we > > > are a football players who wear our jerseys inside out but boast about > the > > > precision, detail, and color of our logos. > > > > > > > > > Hope you are well. Where are you well? > > > > > > All my Peirce books were lost in the mail coming here, so I have > > > been focusing on my garden. Mild, calm June. May be the best garden > ever. > > > But my mind? Not so sure about that. > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prof > > > David West > > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:15 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we? > > > > > > Doing some reading on quantum consciousness and embodied mind and > > > came across these items: > > > > > > > > > https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-human-eye-could-help- > > > te > > > st-quantum-mechanics/ > > > > > > https://www.nature.com/news/people-can-sense-single-photons-1.20282 > > > > > > (A Rebecca Holmes from Los Alamos Natl. Labs is part of the > > > Scientific American reported research.) > > > > > > not only can the human eye perceive individual photons (and perhaps > > > quanta level phenomena) "The healthy human cochlea is so sensitive > > > that it can detect vibration with amplitude less than the diameter > > > of an atom, and it can resolve time intervals down to 10µs [i.e., > > > microseconds, or millionths of a second]. It has been calculated > > > that the human ear detects energy levels 10- fold lower than the > > > energy of a single photon in the green wavelength…” Regarding human > > > tactile and related senses (haptic, proprioceptive), it has recently > > > been determined that “human tactile discrimination extends to the > > > nanoscale [ie, within billionths of a meter],” this research having > > > been published in the journal, Scientific Reports (Skedung et al 2013)" > > > > > > interesting stuff > > > dave west > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at > > > cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at > > > cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
