Nick, Not sophmoric smarminess - but a contradiction of your monism. "you are a model" contradicts "my model of you" which asserts "representation" of something — Cartesian dualism.
davew On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, at 9:44 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > Eric, > > I apologize forwhat may seem sophomoric smarminess but….. > > To me, you are a model, right? Whatever you are, it is my model of you with > which I am dealing. So, when you intend something by a model, it is a case of > a model intending a model, right? So, models intend, right? So why not just > say so, in the first instance. > > Nick > > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:27 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and > reply > > There is an interesting issue that often comes up in these contexts, in which > someone asserts that the models mean something all on their own. If it is > someone who has picked up our language, they might, for example, ask "What > does the model intend? The Model, itself? " > > Glen does this by saying "there's good reason to believe you will *never* > actually understand how your model works." > > I have seen Nick oscillate in those discussions, towards and away from > thinking he needs to rewrite everything. > > I insist that is not the direction should be going in. The model doesn't > intend anything. A person, who is offering a model, intends something by it, > and does not intend other things. Because THAT is what we'r are talking > about.... There IS a chance (though no guarentee) that the person offering a > model (fully) understands what they do or do not intend to match between the > model and the situation that is modeled. > > We aren't talking about anything other than people doing things. X is "a > model" if/when someone thinks an aspect of X matches something happening > somewhere else, and all models contain both intended and unintended > implications. This makes a question of whether or not someone "fully > understands their model" a question primarily about the understanding, not > primarily about "the model itself". > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 1:13 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Did Epstein ever respond to your criticism? >> >> For what little it's worth, I disagree with your lesson. Obtuse models can >> be very useful. In fact, there's good reason to believe you will *never* >> actually understand how your model works, any more than you'll ever >> understand how that model's referent(s) work. I may even be able to use >> Pierce to argue that to you. 8^) >> >> On 1/15/20 9:23 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: >> > The lesson is, if you >> > don’t understand how your model works, you aren’t doing yourself any >> > favors by inventing it. This led to my war with Epstein in the pages of >> > JSSS about the relation between explanation and prediction. >> >> -- >> ☣ uǝlƃ >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
