Yes, exactly. 

> 1.8 million people at a 1% fatality rate.

That’s what you get in countries that can give the best of their health service 
to patients who get very sick.  Italy’s death rate is currently around 10%.  
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ 
<https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/>
So multiply 1.8 million by 10x.  

There may be several factors that contribute to the worse patient profile in 
Italy, but certainly a large part of it is just overwhelming their capacity.  

I was glad Roger forwarded the Emily Landon segment.  Sanjay Gupta did a 
similarly good one on Colbert last week.  This idea that we have 
responsibilities to each other was a prominent part of his overall message, and 
the one that I have wished to hear put forward more often.

Eric



> On Mar 21, 2020, at 11:55 PM, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Gillian writes:
> 
> "One side of that is you have a higher risk getting hit by a car than not 
> making it through this, what ever it is. "
> 
> In 2018 in Italy, there were 3,325 fatalities from road accidents.[1]   There 
> have been 4,032 fatalities from COVID-19 so far.   The governor of California 
> announced that 56% of the state could contract the virus.[2]  Extrapolating 
> that to the whole country, an uncontrolled outbreak would kill about 1.8 
> million people at a 1% fatality rate.   There were 33,654 road fatalities in 
> the United States in 2018.
> Stay at home.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> [1] 
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/437928/number-of-road-deaths-in-italy/ 
> <https://www.statista.com/statistics/437928/number-of-road-deaths-in-italy/>
> [2] https://abc7news.com/6029302/ <https://abc7news.com/6029302/>
> [3] https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state 
> <https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state>
> 
> 
> From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> on 
> behalf of Gillian Densmore <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 6:53 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Outbreak Simulation
>  
> Mmm. Well. That is true our medical system is a fragile mess as is. My 
> concern that I realize is a pretty unpopular opinion is a total lack of 
> perspective. One side of that is you have a higher risk getting hit by a car 
> than not making it through this, what ever it is.   I gather the real issue 
> isn't that, it's people who for what ever reason don't quite stay at some dry 
> caugh cold, nasty flue like stage but  then also get just nastily congested 
> lungs that need sterrioids and oxygen. 
> And all of that on top of a surreal amount of hyping up the negative and 
> turning it into a WWF style match from media. "PANDEMIC 2000 (PANDEMIC, DEMIC 
> EPIDEMIC MOOONSTER DEMIC RACING 2020!!! ALL THE...SAME SOUND BYTES NOW WITH 
> MORE COWBELL!!!"  I don't know if that'll read well in text.  Anyone that was 
> a kid of the 80s(us) and they'd have this truck rally adds on Saturdays and 
> Sometimes Sundays. I imagine how that'd sound with this Max-Hendroomy thing 
> of turning this epidemic into something like that. As if it's a 80s WWF 
> wrestling match
> 
> But then also the scientists I don't think are saying lock yourself 
> inside.(yet) Pretty disturbing to call 'Eh well try to avoid people' as 
> Social Distancing.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 11:49 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> It’s not about stalling for a treatment, it is to pace the hospital arrivals.
> 
>> On Mar 20, 2020, at 10:44 PM, Gillian Densmore <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> fuck "social distancing" this "shelter in place" shit has the assumption 
>> that we'll pull a rabbit out of our ass in 2-3 months tops. When in the 
>> history of medicine has that ever happend? I don't want people hurt by it.  
>> Drumming up more hysteria than the news already does isn't helping matters 
>> either.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 5:01 PM Merle Lefkoff <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Below is information I just saw from the Center for American Progress on 
>> strategies to insure the election process can move forward.  This is in 
>> answer to Nick's (and my) concern.
>> 
>> Expand opportunities for people to vote from home or at quarantine locations
>> States should think seriously about adopting all vote-by-mail 
>> <https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mail-elections.aspx>
>>  elections with vote centers or other in-person options for people who 
>> prefer or need them. States such as Colorado, Oregon, and Washington have 
>> already implemented all-mail elections with great success, and Hawaii will 
>> begin implementing 
>> <https://elections.hawaii.gov/voters/hawaii-votes-by-mail/> all-mail voting 
>> during the 2020 elections. Another option is to adopt no-excuse absentee 
>> voting 
>> <https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/absentee-and-early-voting.aspx>
>>  and extend deadlines for requesting absentee ballots. A handful of states 
>> have permanent absentee voting 
>> <https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/21/for-many-americans-election-day-is-already-here/>lists,
>>  whereby every registered voter who signs up receives an absentee ballot 
>> each election. As a precaution for upcoming elections, jurisdictions should 
>> automatically mail 
>> <https://www.mcall.com/news/pennsylvania/capitol-ideas/mc-nws-pa-coronavirus-primary-election-mail-voting-20200312-rs7mnligozbv3f6m2wlrvr37ny-story.html>a
>>  ballot to each registered voter well in advance of voting periods. Voters 
>> should be able to return their ballots by mail or by dropping their voted 
>> ballot off at conveniently located secure drop boxes or at drive-up, 
>> drop-off locations. Ballot envelopes should be self-sealing to protect 
>> <https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/election-polling-locations.html>
>>  the health and safety of election workers who handle absentee ballots. All 
>> absentee ballots postmarked on or before Election Day must be counted even 
>> if they are ultimately received days later due to postal service delays.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 1:56 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> I thought this was kind of interesting.  
>>  
>> https://us.dantelabs.com/pages/coronavirus 
>> <https://us.dantelabs.com/pages/coronavirus>
>>  
>> If they were doing something like this, might be able to collect both the 
>> viral and human data from one sample:
>>  
>> https://www.illumina.com/content/dam/illumina-marketing/documents/products/appnotes/ngs-coronavirus-app-note-1270-2020-001.pdf
>>  
>> <https://www.illumina.com/content/dam/illumina-marketing/documents/products/appnotes/ngs-coronavirus-app-note-1270-2020-001.pdf>
>>  
>>  
>> From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Date: Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:02 PM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Outbreak Simulation
>>  
>> Don't go to sleep, please 
>>  
>> I think our institutions are more robust and durable than you do.
>>  
>> Frank
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>  
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 12:55 PM <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Hi, Y’all, 
>>  
>> Just got done with the FRIAM ZOOM session, which seemed to divide into two 
>> sessions, equally interesting, but quite different.  Session one was an 
>> expert discussion of the complexity dynamics of the pandemic and how 
>> technology could be used to maximize privacy while slowing transmission.  
>> Session two was an exploration of what it is actually going to be like to 
>> live through the next six months, and what, if anything we should be doing, 
>> psychologically and practically, to prepare ourselves for it.  
>>  
>> Most riveting quote of the day, perhaps more riveting because it was so 
>> paradoxical:
>>  
>> “One thing you better have in mind as you plunge into a phase transition is 
>> a clear idea of how you want the world to look like after you come through 
>> it.”
>>  
>> Most actionable suggestion of the day:  
>>  
>> Insist by every means possible that local and state election officials begin 
>> to plan (and practice in the primaries) a non-in-person voting system that 
>> will be regarded as legitimate by the general public.
>>  
>> Personally, speaking for myself, I was left with one meta-question: 
>>  
>> How much time do we devote to trying to imagine the unimaginable.  One the 
>> one hand, it seems like we have to; on the otherhand, trying to do it is so 
>> scarey that it runs the risk of bringing all thought to a stop. 
>>  
>> I know how to handle it individually:  If I start to panic, I just climb 
>> into bed, imagine that I am never going to wake up, and go to sleep.  But 
>> conversation-wise, I am not so sure.  Perhaps agree to devote small portion 
>> of the conversation to catastrophic thinking, with a clear boundary?  
>> Assuming we can do that,  here is my suggestion for a catastrophic 
>> discussion:
>>  
>> Worse than the worst predictions for the virus acting alone, are the 
>> consequences of the virus acting in concert with a total collapse of our 
>> institututions, food production, distributution, our elections, public 
>> order, etc. (e.g., Who is going to plant and pick the crops if the borders 
>> are closed?  Draft out-of-school college students?)  Our country is run by a 
>> gerontocracy, which, being human, will try above all to protect themselves. 
>> But they will mosty fail, in any case,  because they are the most 
>> vulnerable. What if, in their vain attempt to protect themselves, they bring 
>> down the whole?   
>>  
>> Ok.  Now I am going to bed. 
>>  
>> Nick
>>  
>> Nicholas Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>> Clark University
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
>> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>>  
>>  
>> From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>> On Behalf Of Jon Zingale
>> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:02 PM
>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Outbreak Simulation
>>  
>> At home, we are discussing the effect of the virus and the effect
>> of social distancing on individuals that rely on soup kitchens.
>> What strategies can Friam produce for feeding these people
>> that is consistent with the social distancing strategy?
>> For bonus points, please justify posted strategies with a model, 
>> or simulation.
>>  
>> Jon
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>> emergentdiplomacy.org <http://emergentdiplomacy.org/>
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Reply via email to